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What Is The 'Self Protection System'?  
User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4490 times:
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Hi!

I was looking at this photo today:


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Photo © Weimeng



In the caption, it says 'Notice the Self Protection System on his body'.

Can anyone tell me what exactly is the self protection system and where it is on this picture?

Thanks in advance,

EI787

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

I would imagine that it is there as an anti-missile defense system, i.e. drops flares or chaff or something like that, should anybody fire on the airplane.


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4479 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ismael Jorda
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Weimeng


Notice the Bulged fairings at the Left Aft.
Is this the Flares anti terror system.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Notice the Bulged fairings at the Left Aft

No I don't.

Can you narrow it down using the actual names of airplane parts or landmarks in the picture?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4461 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Notice the Bulged fairings at the Left Aft.

Is this what you're on about:

http://i3.tinypic.com/2mdl9jr.jpg


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1608 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4450 times:
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What you are looking at is the Elta Flight Guard system. It drops flares if a missile launch is detected.

User currently offline2enginesonly From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

There seems to be a strange bulge right below the apu exhaust as well.....part of the same system??

Arjan


User currently offlineOnetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 5):
What you are looking at is the Elta Flight Guard system. It drops flares if a missile launch is detected.

Impressive!


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

I imagine some sort of evasive maneuvers are also in order once the threat indicator beeps.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting 2enginesonly (Reply 6):
There seems to be a strange bulge right below the apu exhaust as well.....part of the same system??

Correct, this is the Infra red that detects the missile, the bulged fairings on the aft are the part wich will release the flare etc. but the bump under the APU is only to detect the missiles.

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 9):
Correct, this is the Infra red that detects the missile, the bulged fairings on the aft are the part wich will release the flare etc. but the bump under the APU is only to detect the missiles.

Looks like the strobe light to me...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1608 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
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Here are the competing American systems for airliner self-protection. Both work by detecting the missile launch and then firing a laser into the homing head to confuse the missile and force it to break lock.

This is the Northrop Grumman Guardian system, which is pod mounted:


This is the BAE Systems JetEye system, which has its boxes internally mounted:


Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I imagine some sort of evasive maneuvers are also in order once the threat indicator beeps.

With these systems, the pilot is not supposed to maneuver. Keeping the aircraft on a predictable flight path helps the system deal with the missile.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4230 times:

Impressive.Any Close views on the B767 fitted with this.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 11):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
I imagine some sort of evasive maneuvers are also in order once the threat indicator beeps.

With these systems, the pilot is not supposed to maneuver. Keeping the aircraft on a predictable flight path helps the system deal with the missile.

Good info. This is hardly typical of missile evasion but I imagine the expected threat is a rather low tech infrared AA missile so it makes sense.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

http://www.ifri.org/files/CFE/Flight...'Elta%20Flight%20Guard%20system'
Interesting link
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4013 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
http://www.ifri.org/files/CFE/Flight...'Elta%20Flight%20Guard%20system'
Interesting link
regds

Note the 1/1000 false alarm rate claimed by the manufacturer. This is somewhat scary for a civilian flare-based system. 0.1% of flights is a lot more common than missile launches at airliners. Imagine if every airliner had this... lots of fireballs from the sky.

How does this system prevent setting buildings, brush, etc. on fire (flares @ low altitude = really bad, right?) and killing people in the process? Other systems use lasers, which would only blind people  Wink.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting Analog (Reply 15):
How does this system prevent setting buildings, brush, etc. on fire (flares @ low altitude = really bad, right?) and killing people in the process? Other systems use lasers, which would only blind people

Presumably the possibility of a flare hitting a building or person is weighed against the advantage of not being hit by a missile. But you have a point.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLredlefsen From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3936 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 11):
With these systems, the pilot is not supposed to maneuver. Keeping the aircraft on a predictable flight path helps the system deal with the missile.

Holy shnikeys -- that would take a *lot* of faith in the system. "Inbound missile detected -- please fly straight and level."

Quoting Analog (Reply 15):
Imagine if every airliner had this... lots of fireballs from the sky.

It would make spotting so much more interesting, wouldn't it? In fact, if you could figure out how to trigger a false positive (given the 1/1000 rate, that doesn't seem too hard to pull off), it could make for some really cool photos...  Wink


User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1608 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3918 times:
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Quoting Analog (Reply 15):
Note the 1/1000 false alarm rate claimed by the manufacturer. This is somewhat scary for a civilian flare-based system. 0.1% of flights is a lot more common than missile launches at airliners. Imagine if every airliner had this... lots of fireballs from the sky.

They are using a special flare that burns outside the visible spectrum and is gone well before it hits the ground. In fact, its not really even a flare, just wafers of a special material.


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 18):

They are using a special flare that burns outside the visible spectrum and is gone well before it hits the ground. In fact, its not really even a flare, just wafers of a special material.

And if a MANPAD is launched when the AC is rotating? Are the wafers intelligent (timed)?

Clearly the wafers must emit IR (for IR homing missiles)... Why not visible, other than the fact that a visible flare would look bad if it were a false alarm? The probabilities say that virtually all flare launches would be false alarms for a civilian airliner, even for an airline like LY.


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