Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Gate Tow-ins - Why?  
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

I was departing TLV this afternoon, when I saw an Egyptian 735 (SU-GKB, blue tail / cowlings, no other livery markings) pulling into gate C5 (or 6) at TLV T3, but stopped short, and was pulled in by a tug. The gate approach had a kind of kink to it, but didn't seem to much of a problem with a small plane like a 735 - why would the pilot have needed a tow in ? I was just wondering.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIlikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

I can't give you a reason for the specific example you cite, but maybe it required a weird turn, or the aircraft would get too close for comfort to surroundng structure.

For example, at a previous job and airport, we had to do that with the JMC A330 when it came into a specific gate (gate 24 @ YYC). The reason in my case is that the left engine got really close to the bridge (It was one of the older bridges that does not have wheels, it was mounted firmly to the concrete below) and it was best to tow it in instead of risking an engine/bridge collision. IIRC, we had to use L2 because if we used L1, the tail would stick out too far.



Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

The other problem is jetblast from aircraft pulling into a gate.
At the former international terminal in SFO, on numerous occasions
baggage carts were blown into DL or NW jets when a widebody
advanced the throttles "just a little bit" to get into the 50-52 gates.
This led to a little overkill since the airport then required all aircraft
to be towed in those gates, MD80s and 727s, even though they were
unlikely to cause the problems that the 747s did.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

Playing Safe I guess.What about FOD worries.Is it Airline related SOP.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17003 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Is it Airline related SOP.

I think it depends. At LAX Tom Bradley they used to require all airlines to tow in (do they still require that?). At JFK AA Terminal 9, it depends on the gate, but most are deep in an alley, so tow-in is typical.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Tight constraints/ramp space, or a location which provides restricted vis when pulling in, or a tight turn that might require too much thrust are all parameters which may necessitate a tow in gate.

User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Yes, in most cases a tow in to park is going to be for safety of people, or equipment; put into place by airline, or airport policy.

User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3983 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

LHR T4 has tow in for noise abatement. You stop at the entrance to the cul de sac and shut down engines. Before 0730 you wait until the tug GPU is connected and then shut down the APU as well before being towed on. There is a village close by that was there when T4 was built and this was part of the planning permission.

Also I remember the old TWA terminal at JFK. That was always a tow in on the B767, and wasnt it tight!


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9808 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2829 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
I think it depends. At LAX Tom Bradley they used to require all airlines to tow in (do they still require that?).

From Airnav:

"TOM BRADLEY INTL TERM GATES: ALL ARR B-747 ACFT SHUT DOWN ENGINES ON TWY ADJACENT TO GATE AND TOW ONTO GATE."

So apparently the A340s, 767s, and whatever else can taxi in on their own?

I had also thought that all aircraft were towed into TBIT.

If you look on Google Earth, there are 7 747s at TBIT. Their wingtips are quite close together, at least to my non-expert eye.

~Vik



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17003 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 8):

"TOM BRADLEY INTL TERM GATES: ALL ARR B-747 ACFT SHUT DOWN ENGINES ON TWY ADJACENT TO GATE AND TOW ONTO GATE."

Ah. Well at least the data fits. I have only flown in to Tom Bradley on 747s.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

everything depends on the way in which a ramp is constructed and what aircraft are being parked. let's not forget, to make a very tight turn aircraft need to spool up pretty high in order to get the wheel moving.

at my home airport, KLGA, aircraft in the CTB are towed into the gates that are near the building simply because they are tight spaces and the aircraft would need to make almost a 90* turn. most a/c just cant make that kind of a turn with thier nosegear. i've seen it happen with 717s, S80s and even 737s. my terminal is no problem, aircraft can taxi in to any gate due to the width of alleyway.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineMandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

They still tow to gates at new SFO Intl terminals, due to tight turns.
This is specially true if you are going to be parked on the gates facing highway and in the mid afternoon all the big planes are parked there for before they return to their european or asian destinations.


User currently offlineLouA340 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Sometimes too they do tow-ins in special cases where the aircraft has to make certain manouvers in order to park at the gate.
Heres a video I saw with an Iberia A346 that was had to be towed in because of its length.

http://flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_A...ne_Iberia_Aviation_Video-4837.html



RyEng
User currently offlineSkydrolBoy From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2596 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 7):
Before 0730 you wait until the tug GPU is connected and then shut down the APU as well before being towed on

Forgive my ingnorance, but how can you tow an aircraft with a GPU connected, does the tug have a GPU mounted on it or is another guy towing a GPU beside the a/c the whole time????


User currently offlinePilot3033 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 8):
From Airnav:

"TOM BRADLEY INTL TERM GATES: ALL ARR B-747 ACFT SHUT DOWN ENGINES ON TWY ADJACENT TO GATE AND TOW ONTO GATE."

So apparently the A340s, 767s, and whatever else can taxi in on their own?

I had also thought that all aircraft were towed into TBIT.

If you look on Google Earth, there are 7 747s at TBIT. Their wingtips are quite close together, at least to my non-expert eye.

It's done at most gates, at least in the south complex, probably at T2 and T1 as well. AA @ T4 lets their 737s and MD80s self park (I think) even when they go to the gates closest to the road, but anything bigger gets a tow (757s included). last time I was at LAX I had the pleasure of watching them back ojut the QFA744, it's quite amazing actually. The thing is pushed back literally tail to the taxiway out of the ally. It then is position on C or B to taxi to the runway. Immedialty clear of the ally, the next 744 is brought in.
Clearly, the reason for tows at LAX (and not just TBIT) is the tight space. A tug can position an aircraft better then the aircraft can its self.
-Matt



-Matt
User currently offlineVTBDflyer From Thailand, joined Aug 2006, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 13):
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 7):
Before 0730 you wait until the tug GPU is connected and then shut down the APU as well before being towed on

Forgive my ingnorance, but how can you tow an aircraft with a GPU connected, does the tug have a GPU mounted on it or is another guy towing a GPU beside the a/c the whole time????

Most large A/C tugs have GPU/APU's on-board so they can power the aircraft in that short period of time when the A/C isn't running off the engines, APU, or GPU. I'm not sure whether small A/C tugs have the option for APU/GPU's.

VTBDflyer



Fly Thai
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

I don't mean to be ignorant, but perhaps the a/c may have been pulled into the gate due to MX. It's rare (especially at a regional carrier), but we've had to have a/c pulled from the hangars and off the taxiways previously.

-R


User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2121 times:

Go to ATL.....At gate D38 the construction off the end of the terminal requires wing guidemen....so...they shutdown and get towed into the final stopping point. It all depends on the type of obstruction/obstacle or possible jet blast damage that makes it necessary.

I don't know if they still require this or if the construction is complete.

KD


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1860 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

JFK T7 all 747's have to be towed to gate 3 after the Qantas incident and at T3 gate 12 has to be towed in b/c of the jetblast to the Delta Connection area. Gate 20 for the same reason gate 2 b/c of the tight turn (on 757's only) gate 8 in a/c are on pad 11.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Quoting VTBDflyer (Reply 15):
I'm not sure whether small A/C tugs have the option for APU/GPU's.

Def not out here.The GPU is a seperate Self driven or towed unit.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSuper Em From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Can't speak for other airlines, but at the airline I work for, we tow in our a/c for courtesy and safety reasons. If another crew is working at a gate(especially if on a regional jet) directly behind our incoming a/c, they will get jetblasted.

Quote:
Forgive my ingnorance, but how can you tow an aircraft with a GPU connected, does the tug have a GPU mounted on it or is another guy towing a GPU beside the a/c the whole time????



Procedure for gate tow in:

1. Marshaller will stop A/C at a pre-determined location
2.Instruct pilot to shut down engine and start APU
3.Hook up towbar to nose-gear and pull A/c to the gate.
4.Once at the gate, GPU will be connected and APU can be turned off.

Again can't speak for all airlines but this is how it's done where I work.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting Super Em (Reply 20):
Instruct pilot to shut down engine and start APU

Shouldn't that be already done.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Gate Tow-ins - Why?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Reverse Thrust From Gate: Why Roll Forward? posted Sat Jul 30 2005 02:34:38 by Crownvic
Why 2 Engines More Efficient Than 3, Or 4? posted Thu Nov 16 2006 03:13:12 by MarkC
Why Airbus For Start-ups? posted Mon Nov 13 2006 18:27:42 by AirWillie6475
Why No Further A330 Stretch? posted Fri Nov 10 2006 03:50:51 by MarkC
Why Does The Tower Give Out Altimetric Reading posted Fri Nov 10 2006 02:58:14 by YULspotter
A340-600 Why No Body Gear Steering? posted Fri Nov 3 2006 18:16:18 by BALandorLivery
Why No Retractable Gear On Aerobatics Planes? posted Thu Nov 2 2006 20:54:17 by QFA380
Why Fabric Control Surfaces? posted Wed Nov 1 2006 03:38:16 by 3DPlanes
Recip Fuel-injected Hot Start: Why? posted Tue Oct 24 2006 23:12:10 by KELPkid
Why No Papi On W/B Rwys At LAX? posted Wed Oct 18 2006 06:58:06 by Adipasqu

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format