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Single Engine Over Water Rules  
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11567 times:
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I need some help. I am looking for rule/regulations regarding taking a 172 over Lake Michigan. I'm not sure if it is legal to do, but I cant find anything in the F.A.R./AIM that says otherwise. I fried of mine is buying a plane, and he insists in flying across the lake from MKE to MKG to avoid having to go all the way around, and dealing with Class B airspace in Chicago. Let me know if he can do this.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

Of course he can do it. Why would you think otherwise?


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User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11552 times:
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It's legal under part 91. I've done it myself, but I wouldn't do it again...particularly in the cold months. There's a window of about 10-15 miles where an engine failure would almost certainly result in a swim. During that 10-15 miles, you tend to hear some mighty strange noises from the engine...  Wink

If I had to regularly fly between those two locations, I'd consider three options:

  • Follow the shoreline around, within gliding distance of land
  • Buy a twin
  • Buy a floatplane and carry survival gear




2H4





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User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11552 times:

If u got stones large enough to do it and like 2H4 have done it with gear onboard but won't do it again! Actually CFR Part 91 talks about "gliding distance" and then there is always the 91.509 I think that is the correct paragraph...50 miles off the shore with survival equipment and then when the whistling of the wind gets very quiet.............................................jump   

[Edited 2006-09-19 19:08:19]

[Edited 2006-09-19 19:08:53]


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

I knew of someone who had to do a water landing. It was an interesting conversation to say the least. They had a partial engine failure and they couldn't quite make it to land so they ditched close to the shore line. From what he told me it wasn't as bad as he though it would be, the plane submerged half way on impact but then it bobed up again and they basically just exited and waited for help. It's important to carry at least a life raft and some sort of communication device.

User currently offlineRedcordes From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

IIRC, aren't flotation devices required at any time the flght is over 30 min. from shore. So, in this case, probably none would be required.


"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6369 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11488 times:

It *IS* Legal...you must fly, as per the FAR Part 91, within gliding distance of the shore or with water survival gear on board (i.e. self-inflating life raft). You can either buy the raft from Sporty's (expensive), or there are outfits that will rent you the survival equipment. I had a friend who used to fly a PA-28 regularly between FLL and the Bahamas, and an FBO down in Florida used to rent out the self-inflating life rafts with a lot of other survival goodies in the kit (such as water purification, flare gun, fishing kit, sunscreen lotion, etc.).


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11470 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
During that 10-15 miles, you tend to hear some mighty strange noises from the engine...

It's called "auto rough" and it is pretty much guaranteed.

I flew a single across the Gulf of Mexico (five hours and forty minutes) when I was young and bulletproof. I'd have to be seriously motivated to do that again.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
I knew of someone who had to do a water landing. It was an interesting conversation to say the least.

I had a conversation with the late Frank Tallman about that once. He and his late partner Paul Mantz used to earn their living crashing airplanes for the movies. Frank said the worst thing he ever did was land a Navion in the bay for a Disney movie. He said he'd swear the thing stopped in about four feet. He had bruises from all the restraint harness. Really unpleasant I guess.

Looks like you could shorten the overwater some by coasting out at the sandspit just north of the Ludington ferry route. Only about 50 miles across there. Might be cheaper to carry an oxygen bottle and cross at about 14000' to increase the glide distance. He could use the flight north to climb - he'll need to!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineRedcordes From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11382 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
It *IS* Legal...you must fly, as per the FAR Part 91, within gliding distance of the shore or with water survival gear on board

Could you cite the specific paragraph(s) that state this. I find the FAR's confusing in this area due to differences for aircraft size, type of operation, IFR vs. VFR, etc. Thanks.



"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11379 times:

You don't need to have any survival equipment with you. If you read through the FARs, you'll realize that the FAA really doesn't care if you kill yourself, they only care about other people and paying passengers (with a few exceptions).

91.509 only applies to large, multi-turbine, and fractional ownership operating under subpart K. 91.205 only applies if the aircraft is operated for hire. I'm assuming your friend is not flying it for hire, so he could do it with naught but his underwear if he so desired.



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User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11375 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):
he could do it with naught but his underwear if he so desired.

....As our Danish friend so eloquently demonstrates:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Erik Frikke



 biggrin 



2H4





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