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A340-600 RTO Test -- What Happened?  
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1569 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9365 times:

In this thread A380 Maximum Weight Rejected T/O Footage? (by Spruit Sep 19 2006 in Tech Ops) mention is made of the A340-600 RTO test video, and indications that something happened that Airbus wasn't too thrilled about being publically available to see -- that got my curiosity going ... so what happened in that test/video? Is there anywhere I could see that video?

I tried searching the forum, but didn't get any results.

Thanks
Bren


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9354 times:

Thats a closely held secret and we will never know the answer. All Airbus supporters who have seen the video have been sworn to secrecy. All Boeing supporters who saw the video have been shot.  tapedshut 

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9350 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...wheels+after+RTO+test+failure.html

Quote:

After the maximum braking to a standstill required in the RTO test there must be a 5min wait before fire services are allowed to attend the aircraft. Fire broke out in the port main bogey of the Messier Dowty undercarriage, and several of the Goodrich wheels broke under the stress of increased tyre pressure before the tyres' fuse-plugs could operate. The aircraft was fitted with Michelin's new NZG radial tyres, which are believed to have performed adequately.

Debris damaged gear bay doors and the fuselage but not fuel tanks. The stopping distance, however, was within planned performance requirements, says Airbus. By 21 February the company had repaired the undercarriage and flown the aircraft back to Toulouse.

Airbus says the wheels have been shown to have an "insufficient strength margin" and will be reinforced. Also, heat-shielding between the brake discs and tyres is to be improved to slow heat transfer.

Exactly what a test is supposed to show.


User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 2):

Thanks Richard -- I guessed that it did something it shouldn't have done, but wasn't sure what.

Bren



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6289 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9103 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Thats a closely held secret and we will never know the answer. All Airbus supporters who have seen the video have been sworn to secrecy. All Boeing supporters who saw the video have been shot.

There was pictures of the damage here on a.net the day after it happened four and a half years ago. They showed mostly some blown tired on the right hand MLG and some soot on the white painted fuselage.

There was also a long thread about it. I remember that one contributor asked "how (the hell) they could be allowed to land so brutally with a plane which was loaded so many tons over MLW". Another contributor explained correctly that it was for demonstrating the planned safety margin for ordinary ops.

Certification tests are brutal jobs. For most things airliners must demonstrate that structures are 50% stronger than the worst thing they will experience during ordinary legal ops. Certification tests must demonstrate those 50%. If it is 51%, then okay, if 49%, then we get spectacular pics or video.

Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9094 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

Is this it?



User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9092 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

This one?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...830077767976&q=aircraft+crash+test


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9086 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two? Does somebody have the link?

That one wasn't so much a test sussing out a failure though...I remember reading the NTSB report on it, and the pilot essentially lost his situational awareness and let his speed and sink rate fall way lower than the test required. The empenage was subjected to something well over 200% of it's design strength, so off it went...I'll see if I can find the link.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6289 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9059 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 7):
That one wasn't so much a test sussing out a failure though...I remember reading the NTSB report on it, and the pilot essentially lost his situational awareness and let his speed and sink rate fall way lower than the test required. The empenage was subjected to something well over 200% of it's design strength, so off it went...I'll see if I can find the link.

That's right. Test pilots also make mistakes.

I remember reading some pretty scared comments by an A-380 test pilot about a year ago. He was going to perform the high speed flutter demonstation test on the 380. He had to dive it to Mach 0.96 at a pretty steep dive angle. But, as he said: "We do NOT want to get anywhere near Mach 0.97, which makes it a very demanding pilot job".

Test pilots often live on the edge, simply because it is their job to demonstrate the edge. On the edge there is very little or no room for error.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8963 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 8):
Test pilots often live on the edge, simply because it is their job to demonstrate the edge. On the edge there is very little or no room for error.

True a Tough job & it takes guts to do it.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8873 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two?

Did they survive that??


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8870 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Has everybody seen the video of the max vertical speed landing test of the DC-9 and the fuselage broke in two?

Did they survive that??

No fatalities but I believe there were injuries. The plane stopped on the runway sans tail.

[Edited 2006-09-29 19:53:35]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8829 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
Did they survive that??

I seem to recall hearing a story about that where the pilots noticed the hard landing but didn't think anything of it until they stopped on the rollout and noticed many shocked people running towards the plane. At that point they figured there was something wrong, so they went for the cockpit door and had a real good "oh s*it" moment when they opened it to see daylight at the back end of the fuselage.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
No fatalities but I believe there were injuries.

Copilot broke something if I am not mistaken...wrist, ankle, back...from getting tossed around. The guy who was onboard for measuring instruments and whatnot hurt his back too, if I'm not mistaken...but everyone came out in one piece.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8755 times:

Quoting Meister808 (Reply 12):
noticed the hard landing but didn't think anything of it until they stopped

It looks like the nose gear collapsed, they would noticed that, i'm sure.  Smile

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
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