Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boeing 747-400BCF  
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7274 times:

Hey, i am trying to find some 744BCF specific data. Im talking about MLW ZFW
and max payload weight.

Cheers Leo


Happiness is V1 in Lagos
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Thread starter):
Hey, i am trying to find some 744BCF specific data.

Did you try.. www.boeing.com....???



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7231 times:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_400sf_prod.html

User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7225 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Did you try.. www.boeing.com....???

Hmmmm yes i did... the question is did you...? or am i blind. i dont see it stating
ZFW, MLW etc...

Check it out yourself next time...



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 3):
Hmmmm yes i did... the question is did you...?

Yes I did. You need to do a little digging but the site is loaded with great information and even a section with on-line performance data, charts, graphs.

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 3):
I don't see it stating ZFW, MLW etc...

OK, so help us non-MS FlightSim folks out... What is ZFW...? MLW...? I'm guessing MLW is max landing weight.

You can also go to the TCDS web page and that is full of all kinds of information as well.......

[Edited 2006-10-15 19:02:09]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7178 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
OK, so help us non-MS FlightSim folks out... What is ZFW...? MLW...? I'm guessing MLW is max landing weight.

ZFW: Zero Fuel Weight. AFAIK this is the weight without fuel. I don't know if this includes the fuel that cannot be used by the engines because of tank configuration.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 5):
ZFW: Zero Fuel Weight. AFAIK this is the weight without fuel.

Twelve years in commercial aviation I've never heard it called ZFW.. Anyway, going to the 747-400BCF TCDS page it dosn't list Max Landing or Zero Fuel weights. It refers you to the airlines AFM, so with that each operator is slightly different.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/7474sec2.pdf

[Edited 2006-10-15 21:10:38]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Twelve years in commercial aviation I've never heard it called ZFW.. Anyway, going to the 747-400BCF TCDS page it dosn't list Max Landing or Zero Fuel weights. It refers you to the airlines AFM, so with that each operator is slightly different.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/7474sec2.pdf

Once again you have not read properly..

There is no BCF page in that document and I have already seen it..

There is 747-400pax with PW GE and RR engines
747-400Combi with PW GE and RR engines
747-400F with PW GE RR engines and
747-400 domestic with GE engines.

So were like you stated does it tell me info about the BCF?

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7120 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 7):
So, where like you stated does it tell me info about the BCF?



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Anyway, going to the 747-400BCF TCDS page it dosn't list Max Landing or Zero Fuel weights. It refers you to the airlines AFM, so with that each operator is slightly different.

The Boeing web site does give the Max Payload at: 250,000lbs. The rest of what your looking for is based on a case by case basis. What engines are on the plane being converted, what structural set up does it have, what options does the new airline what. The BCF is a converted passenger plane and when converted they will all be slightly different. You WILL NOT have a set of fixed numbers.....

[Edited 2006-10-15 22:57:57]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7098 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
You WILL NOT have a set of fixed numbers.....

Actually you will... the ZFW always differs by a couple of hundred lbs but still there is a general number..so does the MLW the only difference their is, is that
for exaple you can choose between 652,000Lbs and 666,000Lbs MLW
but not 655,000 so again your wrong.

And i also found out that the MZFW is 599,750Lbs. So there is no big difference a operator has..

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7091 times:

Man, I really pulled a boner in that Branson thread, but this?

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
OK, so help us non-MS FlightSim folks out...

I thought you were just being nasty in a general way there, until I saw the PMDG reference in the sig.

I'm a simmer (and modeller) myself and I often get hold of aircraft where the designer has modelled pax as part of the base package. Causes a problem with FSPassengers, since that app tries to add weight to the base aircraft in line with the number of people you try to put on. Much hilarity and aircraft.cfg editing ensues.

I expect what you have here is someone from "Aviation Hobby" venturing into Tech/Ops to try for a little accuracy (either in the sim or as part of a model).

Personally I find close enough is good enough for that application.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 10):
Personally I find close enough is good enough for that application.

The very point I've tried to make. The only printed information he's asking for is the Max Payload. As for the rest, by going to the TCDS on the 747-400 and the BCF, all it states is 'Refer to the airlines Operations Manual for this data' What that means is each BCF will be different. There is also not a TCDS issued for the BCF.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
What that means is each BCF will be different.

Aye, every aircraft in GQ's fleet has different weights (ie ZFW, MTOW, MLW...by know you know the drill)... A manufacturer isn't going to have the exact numbers...


User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7074 times:

Well quite.

Actually, if he's doing what I think he's doing, all he needs to know is the dry weight of the aircraft.

Saying that, the .pdf Star_World linked to does include a section for each model called "Zero Fuel Weight". I imply this (from their text) to be the weight of the aircraft with all lubricants on board, with sumped tanks*. Perhaps this is Boeing's own lingo? In Section 2.1 they actually call it MZFW, or "Maximum Design Zero Fuel Weight".

I would also interpret MLW to mean "Maximum Landing Weight", since the .pdf describes such an attribute.








*To me this means, "no usable fuel, but the tanks are not necessarily empty".



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7052 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 13):
I would also interpret MLW to mean "Maximum Landing Weight", since the .pdf describes such an attribute.

You both dont seem to understand..

If ZFW etc. is operator specific then why even wright it down in the manual??
The differences will only be in a couple of hundred pounds and that is my point.. So there is a general MZFW of 272T because that is the only option
for the BCF. I also know that the BCF is slightly lighter than the 744F
because it doesnt have the nose cargo door.

So to clear it up these could be the differences.

MTOW Depends what operator chose to buy initially NO CHANGE
ZFW Standard for 744F 363,088Lbs so for BCF we could say 362,500Lbs
MLW 630,000Lbs keeping the MLW from the PAX 744 NO CHANGE
MZFW 599,750 higher MZFW because of lower ZFW
Max Payload 250,200Lbs little higher than 744F but the floor does have some
weaker spots.

Summing this up there is a "general" ZFW for the 747BCF because if there wernt, why would they do one for the pax 744?
And you can see that the pdf. shows that GE PW and RR 744pax all have a general ZFW of 394,000Lbs. And the same numbers must exist for the BCF.

Concluding it just seems that boeing has not yet updated the .pdf

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7040 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 14):
Concluding it just seems that boeing has not yet updated the .pdf

You are the one that is not getting it. READ THE TCDS...!!! It says for the information you are requesting "See the airlines AFM for specific information" That means each BCF will have different numbers and they are not going to issue a 'standard' set.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 963 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

The ZFW for each aircraft (each individual aircraft) is determined just prior to delivery by draining tanks to min usable fuel, with all other fluids topped off and then weighing the airplane. That number goes into the logbook and is kept up to date by the airline as they change airplane, change seat etc. Though you might find a generalized number for a BCF, the collection of planes it might have been made from would make it a ball park number at best.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Boeing 747-400BCF
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Who Flies The New Boeing 747 400/LCF? posted Sun Sep 10 2006 08:52:05 by ElpinDAB
Exact Boeing 747-400 Engine Data? posted Thu Aug 24 2006 18:26:05 by Qantas744ER
Boeing 747-200 MR's posted Sun Jul 30 2006 08:18:48 by Jetline
Did A Boeing 747 -100 Have Any New Tech? posted Fri Jul 28 2006 22:09:08 by 747400sp
Rolls-Royce Boeing 747 Flying Test Bed posted Wed Jul 26 2006 12:43:03 by CCA
Depleted Uranium In Boeing 747? posted Wed May 17 2006 09:56:59 by Bjornstrom
Boeing 747-400 Payload VS Range? posted Tue Mar 14 2006 00:53:34 by Qantas744ER
Boeing 747-400 Initial Fuel Burn? posted Sun Feb 26 2006 22:34:26 by Qantas744ER
Vnav On Boeing 747-400? posted Fri Jan 13 2006 22:12:05 by Qantas744ER
Boeing 747-400 Construction Time posted Sun Nov 20 2005 00:08:41 by KBGRbillT

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format