Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6288 times:
I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.
There is quite some jetblast visible which to me indicates take off power instead of flight idle running engines.
Also the angle of attack seems a bit weird for a flare.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
TristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4128 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6287 times:
Because a flap asymmetry would be disastrous to flight, there are sensitive systems in place to stop it. Normally the flaps are driven by a single hydraulic motor in the undercarriage bay, driving rotating shafts out to the flaps. On each end of these shafts are rotary transmitters which tell thr Flap Control Unit how much they are going round. If the shafts become out of sync, the FCU cuts power to the Flap Motor and the flaps stop. Beside the transmitters are brakes that come on as well. Quite often , on the Tristar for example, these brakes can only be reset by a mechanic climbing up to them with a spanner. So a defect in the flap system and the flaps are stopped until you land. So a flapless landing can ensue. This is not so common nowadays, but not unusual in the past. It means you have to land much faster, and need a longer runway to do it.
The slats are driven and controlled by a similar system on the Tristar and also have brakes.
This is all very necessary because if one wing's flaps drove out, and not the other the aircraft would roll well beyond the aileron authority.
Aviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6278 times:
I know how the various systems work guys, it's my day time job.
Also I know that if you don't have flaps due to a failure you have little to choose from.
Still looking at this photo my impresion is: Take Off.
AirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6234 times:
Quoting Aviopic (Reply 5): Still looking at this photo my impresion is: Take Off.
Dude, do you know how an airplane flys? Not having flaps on takeoff could be disastrous if the plane is not designed for flap less takeoffs. It won't be airborne even it's going well above the normal takeoff speed. Not having flaps on landing is not a big deal since the plane is already airborne.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 67
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6201 times:
No-flap landings were a QRH procedure so I don't have the good skinny in front of me, but they were pretty serious - very high landing speeds. Might even have been the reason for the big Bus having 235 MPH tires where the usual standard is 225.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1): I am not so sure this is an approach, looks more like take off to me.
As you well know, takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory. A no-flap landing might become necessary (What else are you going to do? Leave it up there?) But a no-flap takeoff is not an authorized maneuver in the A-330.
The only real question here is why the photographer didn't get the firetrucks in the shot. They sure as hell should have been chasing this plane.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6199 times:
Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4): Quite often , on the Tristar for example, these brakes can only be reset by a mechanic climbing up to them with a spanner.
On the L-1011 only the slat brakes require a spanner (9/16") it pushes the plunger in and unlocks the brake. The flaps have a knurled knob that extends and can be pushed in by hand.
I have a funny story about the L-1011 slat asymmetry brake. I spent over twenty years in L-1011 product support and the flight controls was one of the systems I covered. In Product Support we were on call 24 hours a day. So on Christmas day about 1986 we had just sat down to Christmas dinner, when I got a phone call from a ATA mechanic in Minneapolis. He asked how many foot pounds torque does it take to reset the slat asymmetry brake? I said I didn't know exactly but a 9/16" wench (spanner) pulled with one hand is all I ever used. He said he weighed 180 pounds and he had hung on a one foot long breaker bar and the brake would not reset. I told him to change the brake because there must be something broken inside and when back to my now cold Christmas dinner. About two hours later the same mechanic calls me back and says he has finally reset the brake and the system been checked out. Then he proceeded to tell me that its 20 degrees below zero in Minneapolis and by putting a heater on the brake for an freed it up.
As for the original picture, the A330 is landing, the horizontal stabilized would be trimmed further nose down if it was taking off.
CRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6198 times:
Well the question is now, wouldn't pitching the airplane up at this speed allow some of the thrist to bleed off into lift. I know when I do no flap landing with the C172 my instructor tells me to pitch up a little more to allow air to bleed off and try to get to the 65 kts speed.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4128 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6180 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 12): On the L-1011 only the slat brakes require a spanner (9/16") it pushes the plunger in and unlocks the brake. The flaps have a knurled knob that extends and can be pushed in by hand.
Must be 20 years since I reset a L1011 Flap brake. Sorry got them back to front.
When we first had the A320 in 1988, we regularly got slats locked on engine start. Like every 10th departure. They have a mechanical lock, but you can reset them through the CFDS in the cockpit.
But they must have modified them because it hasn't happened for years.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2257 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6136 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14): Swept-wing A-330 vs straight-wing airplanes, virtually no basis at all for comparison. HUGE differences in flying characteristics
Oh so right, In the MD-11 a no flap ldg is a big deal where you want to be as light as possible because Vapp will be very high and close to max tire spd. A long rnwy is needed and very little flare to prevent any floating.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4253 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6132 times:
No flap landings in the CRJ are a big deal as well.. our max tire speed is 182... at heavier landing weights you are running right up on that speed.
Same technique as Cosmic mentioned... it is definitely a situation where you want to have the trucks standing by. Unfortunately on the CRJ a no flap landing is the most common emergency... I believe there are a couple occurences a month.
I have been pretty lucky and have only had my flaps fail at 20, which is a faster approach (in the 160's at most normal weights) but not as critical as a completely clean wing.