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The "Boeing Nose"  
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4551 times:

An ex of mine used to say that Boeing aircraft - whatever model - had a distinctive 'face'. 737s were "pretty". 757s were "gawky", etc.

At the time I told her that she was full of it, while realising that she had point of sorts - many Boeing frames are based on the same basic design. So it wouldn't be too surprising to find that their front ends were similar.

But yesterday I was holding a DC10-30 up to my face* to check for alignment and realised that if you could only see the nose, it might look a bit like a 767.

So, accepting the fact that form follows function, do you think that Boeings are distictive in this way? Or indeed, any other airliner?


Either way, I wish everyone here a happy and prosperous new year!




*It was 1:144 scale. Not a real one. I'm not that strong... or rich.


Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4554 times:

Well, if you look for faces on the nose of aircraft, you'll find that the airbus and BAC111 also have similar looks.

User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

There is a reason for the similarities in the appearance of different Boeing and Airbus models - that being they were designed to be the same.

Section 41 (Boeing's teminology for the nose section of an aircraft) is a very complicated structure, as not only does it incorporate compound curves, but it also contains a very large portion of the aircraft's avionics. As such, you can save a considerable amount of effort and money designing an aircraft by keeping the nose section the same as the rest of your product lineup.

For example, the 707, 727 and 737 share this section (at least structurally), as do both the 767 and the 777. The 757 is a different case - originally, it was to share the same nose as the 727/737, but changes in the avionics in the 757 made it make more sense to share common flight deck with the 767 than to share the 727/737 nose. This is why the 757 nose has such an odd look to it - they incorporated the flight deck of the 767 into this aircraft, even going as far as changing window sizes to ensure the same view as in the 767.

With Airbus, the A300, A310, A330 and A340 all share a common nose section (again, at least strucurally).



Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1624 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

I've always liked the happy face of the L1011 and the DC-10/MD-11's angry face.
-N243NW Big grin



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Quoting 113312 (Reply 1):
Well, if you look for faces on the nose of aircraft, you'll find that the airbus and BAC111 also have similar looks.

IMO, the nose of Airbus widebodies (excluding A380 and A350XWB) looks also very similar to that of the IL-86 and 96. And the Dassault Mercure has a nose somewhat similar to the A32x aircraft (along with the fuselage being very similar IMO).

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Quoting N243NW (Reply 3):
the DC-10/MD-11's angry face.

With their "angry" looking face, Douglas TriJets weren't called Mightydogs for nothing.  Wink


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
For example, the 707, 727 and 737 share this section (at least structurally)

I believe if I remember correctly, I read on another thread that only the 727 and 737 share the forward section. The 707, in spite of having the similar cockpit window arrangement, has a different Section 41



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4288 times:
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Quoting JBo (Reply 5):
I believe if I remember correctly, I read on another thread that only the 727 and 737 share the forward section. The 707, in spite of having the similar cockpit window arrangement, has a different Section 41

The 707 nose section is considerably deeper than the 737 & 727, probably still shares some components though. Also my thinking is that 727 & 737 noses are also disimiliar -- I'd guess at least the nose gear bay & E&E bays are different.



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User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

The B757 has the Flat chin look.Where as the B707,727 & 737 a common section.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

My favorite has to be the Fokker DR i with its bucktooth grin, earnest stare and flamboyant mustache.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineTheCheese From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4045 times:
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I've always felt that the DC-8 and -9 (and, similarly, the A318/19/20 and 757) had a sort of puppy-dog look to them.

To me, the IL-86 and -96 have a regal bearing, but are just slightly "weak-chinned" in the way the nose tapers to a point.

And I've long thought that the L-1011 nose reminds me of dolphins.


User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2684 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Thread starter):
But yesterday I was holding a DC10-30 up to my face* to check for alignment and realised that if you could only see the nose, it might look a bit like a 767.

I seem to recall hearing something along the lines that many MD engineers for some reason worked on the design of the 767. That is why they have similar passenger door mechanisms and may be why the noses look similar.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3901 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting JetMech (Reply 10):
yesterday I was holding a DC10-30 up to my face* to check for alignment and realised that if you could only see the nose, it might look a bit like a 767.

Well, I think that

Quoting N243NW (Reply 3):
the DC-10/MD-11's angry face

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark is quite distinctive.

BTW, this is in the upload queue; photographers, do you think it will be acceptable?

Peter Smile



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6339 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3887 times:

How 'bout the DeHavilland Comet and the Caravelle?  scratchchin 


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3901 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3883 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
How 'bout the DeHavilland Comet and the Caravelle?

The Caravelle actually used the Comet's nose I believe. I don't know why, it's an unusual move especially for the 1950s I'd say.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineATCme From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3773 times:

They do all seem to have a similar "face," but I think that the faces change in order to be more economical for their purpose. (But thats not obvious.)

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 11):
do you think it will be acceptable?

Looks good, but it seems to be off center, look how much sky you can see on the left and none on the right of the fuse.

ATCme spin 



I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help. Really. Yes I'm serious, I'm here to help you.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 11):
this is in the upload queue

Nice Pic.BTW the A320 nose is interesting looking too.
I find the B777 Nose section more Aerodynamic looking.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
I find the B777 Nose section more Aerodynamic looking.

I dunno. I've always thought that standing nose-on to a 777 is like staring at the blunt end of a sausage.

The 757 looks more sleek to me, and not just because it is more slender.

Thanks for your replies, all.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
As such, you can save a considerable amount of effort and money designing an aircraft by keeping the nose section the same as the rest of your product lineup.

That makes perfect sense.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
This is why the 757 nose has such an odd look to it - they incorporated the flight deck of the 767 into this aircraft, even going as far as changing window sizes to ensure the same view as in the 767.

Yes, I recall someone, (probably Slam) mentioning this before. I don't want to misquote him - or whoever it was - but it was something along the lines of you could always tell someone who had flown those birds. 757 drivers would look for a step *down* into the cockpit, and 767 drivers would look for a step *up*. There was also something about ease of transition when going across types.

Quoting JetMech (Reply 10):
I seem to recall hearing something along the lines that many MD engineers for some reason worked on the design of the 767.

That, again, would make a lot of sense. Form may well follow function, but I bet the aircraft design industry is extremely incestuous since there's so few of them.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3550 times:
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Quoting JetMech (Reply 10):
I seem to recall hearing something along the lines that many MD engineers for some reason worked on the design of the 767. That is why they have similar passenger door mechanisms and may be why the noses look similar.

Why would MD engineers help design a competitors aircraft? The 767 was designed long before the Boeing / MD merger.......



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User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

[quote=ZANL188,reply=6]The 707 nose section is considerably deeper than the 737 & 727, probably still shares some components though.

What do you mean when you say considerably deeper? Confused


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3465 times:
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Quoting 747400sp (Reply 18):
What do you mean when you say considerably deeper?

707 has a bigger belly -- it's "deeper" top to bottom. This applies to the lower portion of section 41 as well.



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User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

I'm a fan of the DC10 "madmouth", too. And, of course, I like the Concorde's beak!

User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2684 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 16):
That, again, would make a lot of sense. Form may well follow function, but I bet the aircraft design industry is extremely incestuous since there's so few of them.



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 17):
Why would MD engineers help design a competitors aircraft? The 767 was designed long before the Boeing / MD merger.......

I don't recall the story exactly, but it was either due to lack of work at MD, or lack of engineers at Boeing. Perhaps someone has more information on this (OldAeroGuy?).

Quoting MrChips (Reply 2):
as do both the 767 and the 777


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Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 19):
707 has a bigger belly -- it's "deeper" top to bottom. This applies to the lower portion of section 41 as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.  Smile


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 16):
There was also something about ease of transition when going across types.

True for Flying crew not Mx.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

the boeing 707, 727 and 737 nose sections and cockpits are in fact so similiar that i've seen 727s with fire handles labeled #4.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
25 HAWK21M : Why #4. regds MEL
26 BAe146QT : I'm going to make a wild guess here - perhaps a handle was damaged and needed to be replaced. The only replacement available at the time was not from
27 HAWK21M : Is that permitted.If the P/n is different. regds MEL
28 Blackbird : The Cheese, I've also thought of the L-1011's nose as being dolphin like. Andrea K
29 Post contains images 747400sp : I thought it looked like a dolphin also.
30 Pygmalion : The 757, 767, 777 all share the same cockpit structure from the "firewall" (the weather radar wall? or pressure bulkhead) aft to about where the back
31 Cancidas : why would the part number be different on an engine fire exhaust handle? would the number on the front cause it to have a different part number?
32 HAWK21M : I thought you were talking about Fire Extinguisher handle on P8. If its from a different Aircraft with a different legend,The P/n would be different.
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