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747 Takeoff Video: Zero To Rotate In 20 Seconds?  
User currently offlineJawed From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 482 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12809 times:

As far as I can tell this 747 goes from zero to rotation in about 20 seconds.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...n_Airways_Aviation_Video-7334.html

Is this normal or does that strike anyone else as extremely fast acceleration?

[Edited 2007-01-01 09:58:50]

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2525 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12805 times:

Pretty close to that. Maybe a light load and fuel? What about headwinds? I couldn't see a sock but would guess there had to be something...

777fan

[Edited 2007-01-01 10:05:23]


DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12805 times:

Given it was a very light gross weight takeoff, it's normal. My guess, if it was going to NRT it was probably not heavier than about 270 tonnes.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12767 times:

Possibly a bit shorter than normal, but with a good headwind and light load its nothing unusual.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineToksans From Japan, joined Dec 2003, 86 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12738 times:

ANA uses international 744 for domestic service sometime. This 744 was taken at ITM and it went to HND as domestic flight. So gross weight should be small with lesser fuel.


Toksans from Tokyo. Photographing and flying the plane are things to do for my life.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12441 times:

Never mind the time. It looked like the 747 took off using only 3000' of runway. Maybe it was empty and on a ferry flight.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8198 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11865 times:

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 5):
Maybe it was empty and on a ferry flight.

May as well have been! On a 744 with a full load of fuel for a long eleven hour flight, the weight of the fuel is over a third of the MTOW. This jet, going to Haneda, is only carrying enough fuel for a one hour flight plus reserves (and they wouldn't be much either - enough to divert to Narita and hold for 30 mins). So no surprise that her performance for the camera was sprightly. Man, you should have seen Qantas 747SPs (with RB211s btw) take off from Sydney en route to Brisbane. She was always off before the intersection. To infinity and beyond!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineGkyip From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11695 times:
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Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Possibly a bit shorter than normal, but with a good headwind and light load its nothing unusual.

I think if you listen to the ATC, tower reports winds calm, so i'm putting it to a very light load, possibly even empty! It was very quick though, i'm sure i've been on A320s and 737s that have had longer TO rolls!

Gary



The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11682 times:

It's just a local flight, I'm surprised it didn't take 1500 to get airborne.

User currently offlineFlyfisher1976 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 804 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11550 times:

Quoting Jawed (Thread starter):
As far as I can tell this 747 goes from zero to rotation in about 20 seconds.

I counted 30 seconds on the clock in the lower rh corner from the beginning of the roll (see the runway sign "8" in lh part of frame for reference) to rotation (nose wheel leaves ground). Doesn't seem too unusual to me.


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10349 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11493 times:

Cool video.

Anyone happen to know if that was an intersection takeoff? Looked like the 747 was lining up right around the aiming markers (somewhere between 1000-2000 feet down the runway). Is that something that's done at this airport?

Thanks.

~Vik



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10985 times:

What about the Vertical Speed on climb out for a 747 that light?


121
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10964 times:

Also, flaps look as it they are at 10, as opposed to heavier takeoffs w/flaps 20

[Edited 2007-01-05 03:54:30]


121
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 12):
Also, flaps look as it they are at 10, as opposed to heavier takeoffs w/flaps 20

Heavyweight takeoffs aren't necessarilary done with flaps 20. Flaps 20 will get more weight off the runway (especially short) but you take a big hit in climb performance.

Generally speaking for most runways Flaps 10 will be more than enough to get the aircraft off at MTOW and have not take a hit on climb weights.


User currently offlineDH106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10843 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
Heavyweight takeoffs aren't necessarilary done with flaps 20. Flaps 20 will get more weight off the runway (especially short) but you take a big hit in climb performance.

Generally speaking for most runways Flaps 10 will be more than enough to get the aircraft off at MTOW and have not take a hit on climb weights.

Can you not get the best of both worlds and do Flaps 20 until shortly after t/o then Flaps 10 for the climb? Presumably there's a strict retraction schedule for height/speed that precludes this?



...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10825 times:

Quoting DH106 (Reply 14):
Can you not get the best of both worlds and do Flaps 20 until shortly after t/o then Flaps 10 for the climb? Presumably there's a strict retraction schedule for height/speed that precludes this?

Simply no. Each airline has it's own SOP and furthermore, some airports have very specific ops procedures for flap retraction. In an ideal world, at 400' you would accelerate to flaps 10 airspeed, retract the flaps and go from there. However, most airlines use a clean up of 800' to 1000' as an engine out clean up altitude unless terrain dictates another altitude. As such, their 20 flap procedures are based on that altitude. I know of other airlines that stay at 20 flap until 3000'AGL and starts the retraction then.

It really boils down to each airline's SOP. But if you don't need the 20 flaps why bother in the first place?

Certainly V1 is higher with 10 flaps, tire speeds are higher, but the bottom line is it within the aircraft certification limits and available as an procedure. It always struck me as odd you'd use 20 flaps and redcued takeoff EPR/N1.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

Back when KE's 744's were flying ATL-ORD-SEL, it was not unusual to observe them leaving ATL like a rocket!

I saw many of those flights roll a VERY short distance and leap off of the ground---climbing like the proverbial "Space Shuttle" and I'm thinking they did it in under 20 seconds---(although I never timed them)!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
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