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Cellphones On The Job  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

Do you carry a cellphone while on the Tarmac in Mx.What about refuelling.
Since the Frequency is Low of cellphones & RT sets [Walkies].Would it matter if used around the Aircraft.
If not how does HQ communicate with you.

Out here its been a hot discussion lately.

regds
MEL


Think of the brighter side!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

The refuelling company I work for relies on cell phones to get the fuel orders before the receptionists arrives. We carrry them all over the place. Afer the Front Desk opens up we then switch over to our normal radios.

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2684 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

G'day HAWK21M  Smile,

We each issue ourselves with a personal radio at the beginning of each shift. There is no restriction on the use of this radio anywhere on (or off) the airport, tarmac or the aircraft. This is how we communicate with other members of the engineering, cargo and airport departments.

Most of the boys also take their mobile phones with them and they often make calls whilst on the tarmac and on the aircraft. The LAME's always take their mobile phones with them so that they can call other airport organisations not on our radio system if need be.

I am sure that you are not meant to use mobiles when refuelling, but I am sure I have seen it been done. As far as I know, there is no restriction with using the radios during or near refuelling operations, and we do so all the time. I personally never take my mobile phone with me on the tarmac as it is just another thing to lose and I don't think it is quite appropriate to be talking to friends whilst I am working on the aircraft, but many of the other boys do.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineGrandTheftAero From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 254 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2538 times:

When I worked at VNY they frowned upon using cell phones around the fuel farm because they are not "intrinsically safe"... hence the cell phone prohibition you see at most gas stations.

User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting GrandTheftAero (Reply 3):
hence the cell phone prohibition you see at most gas stations

There is nothing dangerous about using a cell phone at a gas station. This urban legion started when someone caught fire while using his cell at a gas pump due to static electricity, not the cell phone. If cell phones possed a danger at gas pumps so would pagers, electric wrist watches, mp3 players, ect....


User currently offlineTlfd29 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

I carry my cell phone on me at all times on the ramp. Our radios don't work too great, so when I'm in a deadspot I can just call the CSR and get what I need. I try not to make it a habit but I do occasionally take calls when I'm fueling. We don't have any regulations on cell phone usage.

User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

when i was on the ramp as a supervisor we would carry a radio and my cell. the radio would allow me to communicate with other supervisors, managers and operations. my nextel was there to be able to keep tabs on and be available to my agents. now that i'm in ops i have the phone, air-to ground and ground-to-ground radio in my console but my phone is still on me most of the time.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
There is nothing dangerous about using a cell phone at a gas station. This urban legion started when someone caught fire while using his cell at a gas pump due to static electricity, not the cell phone. If cell phones possed a danger at gas pumps so would pagers, electric wrist watches, mp3 players, ect....

You are actually incorrect. The original reason behind prohibiting mobile phones at gas stations was due to an older design of gas pumps where the flow counter was affected by the interference from the phone, causing the amount to be measured incorrectly. This isn't the case with any of the newer pumps. It was more revenue protection by the gas station owners than anything else  Smile

However there is always a small risk of using any transmitter / receiver near gas fumes - that's what makes a mobile phone different than a wrist watch!


User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

I don't carry my phone while working, though many of my peers do. While I can see a convenience, it would be more trouble than it's worth. I can't carry it on my belt or shirt as it would snag on things ( and be lost or broken ) or get soiled by a myriad of nasty stuff. I also don't want my pocket full of a bulging phone, I find it uncomfortable...I don't even carry my wallet with me while out on a plane. I need to be lithe and somewhat maneuverable.

Of course now there's also the double-edged sword side of "convenience". I can now be bothered/distracted more "conveniently" as well. No, the phone sits in my kit bag off a hook on the front of my locker...or in the glovebox of my car. Never been a cell-phone sort of person, it's more of a safety/security panic-button. Like it was coined so accurately by some astute wag: I have a phone for my convenience...not somebody elses.


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting Star_world (Reply 7):
You are actually incorrect. The original reason behind prohibiting mobile phones at gas stations was due to an older design of gas pumps where the flow counter was affected by the interference from the phone, causing the amount to be measured incorrectly. This isn't the case with any of the newer pumps. It was more revenue protection by the gas station owners than anything else

Also incorrect, they use a swirl fuel flow meter... look up how it works on wiki...

Read this page for more information
http://www.hintsandthings.co.uk/garage/phonehoax.htm

I used to work in a gas station...

As for phones at work, i keep mine on me and will accept calls if i'm available. Otherwise we use standard two way radio...

[Edited 2007-01-04 04:05:16]


Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
is no restriction on the use of this radio anywhere on (or off) the airport, tarmac or the aircraft



Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
As far as I know, there is no restriction with using the radios during or near refuelling operations, and we do so all the time

In the AMM Servicing Chapter there is a Restriction of 10 ft [3 mtrs] from a Refuelling source with Cellphone/Hand held radios.Check Chapter 12.I've read it on the B737AMM & B757AMM.

Quoting JetMech (Reply 2):
I personally never take my mobile phone with me on the tarmac as it is just another thing to lose and I don't think it is quite appropriate to be talking to friends whilst I am working on the aircraft, but many of the other boys do.

What about official calls from another city.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZvocio79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

With out my cell phone I cant talk to my maintenance controler........some guys do jobs and they need references of the AMM so they call to ask for reference and chapters and sub chapters.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting Zvocio79 (Reply 11):
With out my cell phone I cant talk to my maintenance controler........some guys do jobs and they need references of the AMM so they call to ask for reference and chapters and sub chapters.

Same here.The Laptop helps with AMM & MBF.com however at times communication thru cellphone is the only way on the Tarmac when dealing with Line Mx snags,in case of Spare parts requirements & snag progress updation.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

We use both radios and cell phones.If we need to contact maintenance control it's with the cell phone or if we need to talk to each other or the flight crew on the airplane it is with the radios.  airplane 

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2180 times:

As long as the Distance of 10 feet is maintained.Things should be fine.If for some reason you are entering the 10ft zone,switch off the cellphone.So no incomming calls arrive.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

MEL

Read the 757 AMM 28-11-00 page 209 table 201.

Mobile phones are cat 3 items. The separation distance for open tanks (not purged or during purging) is 50 feet. If they are open and purged it is 10 feet.

I know this is aimed at heavy maintenance but to my mind, for ramp operations you should be ok anywhere except below or downwind of the fuel vents during refuelling.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2077 times:

Quoting Mender (Reply 15):
Read the 757 AMM 28-11-00 page 209 table 201.

Mobile phones are cat 3 items. The separation distance for open tanks (not purged or during purging) is 50 feet. If they are open and purged it is 10 feet.

Im not reffering to open tanks,but rather during Servicing.More Importantly Line Mx.
check B757 AMM 12-11-01 pg 312.Should be 10 feet.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Im not reffering to open tanks,but rather during Servicing.More Importantly Line Mx

Yeh, I realise that MEL but I quoted it because I think it helps highlight that mobile phones are of little or no risk for Line Maintenance. A little while ago our management tried to ban mobile phones from the hangar floor quoting the risk of fire or explosion but we have managed to "prove" that they had no reason to do this unless the tanks were being purged at the time. Another quote also helped, again, this is not line maintenance related, it refers to tank entry and being able to breathe inside a tank without forced air but it helped prove the management wrong on banning phones.

Chapter 28-11-00 page 205 states......"Because kerosene has a low vapor pressure, the concentrations are usually within the limits needed for a Health-Safe condition. Thus, you usually get very low (safe) values at usual temperatures (less than approximately 70 degrees F). At tank temperatures of approximately 90 dgrees F, it is possible to get gas concentrations more than the Health-Safe value with kerosene.
At tank temperatures of more than 90 degrees F, it is possible to get gas concentrations more than the Fire-Safe value."

Here in the UK we do not often experience 90 degrees. I bet you rarely see below that figure though.

In our company we do not have any restrictions on the use of Mobile phones or radios, however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

Do you have this?


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3077 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

We were issued Cells for the ramp and Departures..


GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2233 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Since the Frequency is Low of cellphones & RT sets

If you are speaking of the radio frequency, your hand helds may be considered "low". (VHF 150-175 MHz UHF 450-500 MHz) The mobile phones are not. Some still operate as low as 800-900 MHz. Most newer sets are all 2.5 Ghz and above. In the radio spectrum that is not considered low, but rather EHF. (Extremely high Frequency)



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting Mender (Reply 17):
however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

That's definently not the case here.

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

No restrictions here that I can tell on cell use. None were mentioned during training. Just about everyone on the station crew here carries and uses a cell, and all CSAs, GOAs, MX, and Supes carry a company radio.


"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Quoting Mender (Reply 17):
In our company we do not have any restrictions on the use of Mobile phones or radios, however on the line we cannot start the APU during refuelling due to the risk posed but the ignition system of the APU. If the APU is already running it is fine, if it is off, it has to stay off until refuelling is complete.

Do you have this

That is def a rule in place out here.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2684 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1890 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
In the AMM Servicing Chapter there is a Restriction of 10 ft [3 mtrs] from a Refuelling source with Cellphone/Hand held radios.

I have no doubt that there actually is some sort of limit. On the A340 / A330, the refuelling panel is located in the wing to body fairing near the right MLG, whilst the refuel manifold couplings are in the leading edge of the wing at about half span, so you are easily more than 3 metres away.

On the 747 / 767, the refuelling panel is at the same location as some of the refuel manifold couplings so you are easily within 3 metres of the refuel point. Despite the advice in the MM, I do have a radio on me when refuelling 747's and often ask for final fuel clearance on it whilst at the refuel panel.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineCRJonBeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Quoting JetMech (Reply 23):
On the 747 / 767, the refuelling panel is at the same location as some of the refuel manifold couplings so you are easily within 3 metres of the refuel point. Despite the advice in the MM, I do have a radio on me when refuelling 747's and often ask for final fuel clearance on it whilst at the refuel panel.

+1
same here. i have been tagged by one UPS auditor for fueling a 752 while carrying a radio. when told what the problem was while she was standing next to me on top of the truck, i kindly pointed out to her that her cell, which was on her belt, was left on. she let me slide. Big grin

most of the companies have eased up on regulations regarding radio use near aircraft. same with bonding to the plane while fueling. i remember the days of bonding the aircraft to the truck, to the fuel nozzle, then grounding. these days, it's just a matter of bonding to the truck for the most part. a few companies still want a bond to the truck and to the nozzle, but only a few.


25 Post contains images HAWK21M : Exactly the same thing occured with a collegue a few nights ago. Quick Thinking Out here.Its bonding between the Fuel nozzle to Grounding point on pa
26 Prebennorholm : Especially defective cell phones could generate a spark from the switches or a lose battery connection. For that reason ordinary cell phones are tota
27 HAWK21M : Any details on these types. regds MEL
28 KBFIspotter : At FBO I used to work at, we would just bond the truck to the plane if pumping AVGAS, but our JET-A trucks had a bonding cable bolted to the fuel noz
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