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Single Jet Engine GA Plane (Is It Possible?)  
User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24362 times:

I wonder if it's possible to produce a truly practical single engine jet-powered GA-plane.

Does this look like a good start?

http://www.x-plane.com/pictures/contest/chandler%20jet.png

(I didn't make this image, this was the product of a guy named Jason Chandler, an X-plane player/designer)

Andrea K

89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24367 times:

Diamond Aircraft thinks so and is lauching the Diamondjet single engined VLJ.

Thereyago

Piper aircraft also has a single engine version of the Navajo on the paper somewhere. The engine will be located on the tail DC-10 style... looks weird...

Thereyagoagain



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24362 times:

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 1):
Piper aircraft also has a single engine version of the Navajo on the paper somewhere. The engine will be located on the tail DC-10 style... looks weird...

Its good that you brought that up...it was all over the cover of the last Flying Magazine.

http://www.newpiper.com/piperjet/



User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17038 posts, RR: 66
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24351 times:

Sure looks neat, but I bet the calculations for that combined nacelle/tailcone will be a bitch. Also, you are cutting off quite a bit of airflow to the engine.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24358 times:

How about one of these?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Wallman




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 24341 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
How about one of these?

I like the way you think  smile ...I had a feeling someone would post something similar


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 24291 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
Sure looks neat, but I bet the calculations for that combined nacelle/tailcone will be a bitch. Also, you are cutting off quite a bit of airflow to the engine.

Now that you mention it...
From an amateur glance, there sure might a problem provding the ONLY engine with enough undisturbed airflow in high angle of attack & high power scenarios (the very scenarios that are already critical enough).



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 24286 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



It reminds me of the RFB Fantrainer:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jens Bettin
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jens Bettin




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pablo Diaz Moreda
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sergey Riabsev - Russian AviaPhoto Team


Edit: Whoops...forgot the Fanliner concept:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Williams




2H4




[Edited 2007-01-07 01:06:58]


Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 24254 times:

What about this beast.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Neville Murphy



User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 24252 times:

While on the subject, not turbine powered, but another oddity:

The Cessna XMC:


User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 24241 times:

I've fueled a Jet powered Cessna 172...

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 24233 times:

I assume you mean that it had a diesel engine installed under an STC?


DMI
User currently offlineATCme From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 24226 times:

Don't forget the Cirrus Jet, which is yet to be unveiled (mock-up or prototype), but is supposedly a single engine 4 place jet (couldn't you tell by the name- Jet?).
Also the Piper Jet was featured in Flying.

ATCme  spin 



I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help. Really. Yes I'm serious, I'm here to help you.
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 24194 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 11):
I assume you mean that it had a diesel engine installed under an STC?

Probably a Garrett turbine actually. There are several STCs out there for Cessnas. Much more common in a 206 & up but there are some smaller Cessnas that have been modified as well.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2292 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24067 times:

No one brought up my favorite in the single jet G/A game...



the Comp Air Jet.



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineTito From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24039 times:

No one has mentioned the Visionaire Vantage.
http://www.scaled.com/projects/vantage.html



User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 24025 times:

What I was thinking of to be absolutely honest, would be a very simple, very basic Cessna 152 / Cessna 172 / Piper PA-28 Archer type of airplane, with simple old dials and gauges, cable controls, and a lightweight, basic, yet sturdy design, with speed equal to that of an MD-80/B-737.

The idea would be to keep it nice and simple, basic, easy to hand-fly, and a reasonable auto-pilot.

Andrea K


User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 24007 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
How about one of these?



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 4):
I like the way you think smile ...I had a feeling someone would post something similar

As soon as I saw the topic I thought of the L-39. Great airplane, hopefully one day i win the lotery... untill then...



Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 23997 times:

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 16):
What I was thinking of to be absolutely honest, would be a very simple, very basic Cessna 152 / Cessna 172 / Piper PA-28 Archer type of airplane, with simple old dials and gauges, cable controls, and a lightweight, basic, yet sturdy design, with speed equal to that of an MD-80/B-737.

The idea would be to keep it nice and simple, basic, easy to hand-fly, and a reasonable auto-pilot.

Andrea K

While I would dearly love to see an affordable jet airplane, what you suggest sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There is a reason why single-pilot-certified jets are required to have operational autopilots and FMS.

It's not just the aircraft that are complicated and demanding in the flight levels, it's the environment. A certain degree of complexity is necessary to have a reasonable chance at a good safety record.

Just MHO.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 23918 times:

Gulfstream had a single engine executive jet project a while ago that never got built. It was going to be powered by a single JT15D4, which is as close to dead ass reliable as you can get.

Tito mentions the Visionaire project, and there is a prototype but the company's defunct. They built a pretty good sized building in Ames Iowa to build the thing but the project went wayyyyyyy over budget and out of time. There is a guy named Matt Eller around here who bought up everything out of the bankruptcy for about $450,000.

Here's an interesting article on what's now known as Eviation. There are plans to build it in Brazil.

http://www.eviationjets.com/01/news/022306.asp


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 23879 times:

I posted the L-39 because whatever the factories come up with will have to compete on a cost-per-seat basis. Besides it is cool. I see one about once a month, all year long.

I still like my idea for the T-37. While it is not real pretty, I can picture it with a strong, reliable single fanjet, the two ejection seats replaced with four Recaro buckets, a modern panel, topped with a smoked canopy and a killer stereo.

Life is good!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23872 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 20):
I still like my idea for the T-37.

You'd have a killer of a time converting that from a twin to a single...
And seeing how all the frames are now pretty old and all had a nice looooong life as trainers, it'd be like buying an overhauled driving school car.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 20):
topped with a smoked canopy and a killer stereo.

Ok, NOW we're talking!  cool 



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23863 times:

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 21):
You'd have a killer of a time converting that from a twin to a single...

Yes, as I typed that I realized that part - the whole interior design back there around the engines it had. Maybe a pair of smaller, more modern engines. Don't know what might work.

And yes, I'd guess they've had a hard life.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23870 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting SlamClick (Reply 20):
I still like my idea for the T-37. While it is not real pretty, I can picture it with a strong, reliable single fanjet, the two ejection seats replaced with four Recaro buckets, a modern panel, topped with a smoked canopy and a killer stereo.

Have you seen the Cessna 407 concept?



http://i12.tinypic.com/2n21uro.jpg






2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 23858 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):
Have you seen the Cessna 407 concept?

Pretty much what I had in mind except for the solid roof, dog whistle engines, and those crappy 172 seats.

The plane appears to have a tail number of 60407. According to Baugher that would make it a canceled KC-135 or a Canadian built Helldiver.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
25 Post contains images 2H4 : ...Or a far more elaborate conversion than I initially thought. 2H4
26 Blackbird : I have nothing against a plane having a flight-management system. I'm thinking though sticking to mostly regular gauges and such would be better for s
27 Post contains images SlamClick : Just spent more time looking at that C-407. That thing was so fifties! Not surprising that they dreamed it up, or that it never saw production. I reme
28 ATCT : The Cessna 407 project was nothing more than a 4 seat Cessna T-37 Tweet. Also along the same theme, though a twin, was the Moraine-Saulnier Paris Jet.
29 Post contains links and images 2H4 : Reminds me of the old fifties-era paint schemes used by Mooney and Piper back in the day. I love those. Blackbird, be sure to check this site out whe
30 KBFIspotter : I have always had a fantasy about converting some random GA aircraft to jets. It could fun, although extermely impractical. Now my idea of placing a R
31 2H4 : You've seen the turboprop Luscombe, haven't you? 2H4
32 Post contains links and images KBFIspotter : I have... There is just something about the A250 in a 150 that gets to me, though... Now, I like this even more... Kris
33 Post contains images 2H4 : Yeah, that's a beaut. I'd better stop now before this turns into one of those threads.... 2H4
34 Post contains images KBFIspotter : Ah, come on now, 2H4. You know you miss it... Kris
35 Post contains images N231YE : I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you give us an example?
36 Post contains images KELPkid : The scary thing is, from all accounts I've heard, that thing actually exists. That is a real locomotive horn on the nose gear Wonder what happens if
37 KELPkid : Here's a question for you: could such a plane be made that would cost not much more than a factory new Cessna 172 or Piper Warrior? Would the fuel co
38 Post contains links and images SlamClick : That was the entire point of my posting this picture: View Large View MediumPhoto © Matthew Wallman I just did a quick search and found an L-39
39 Post contains images Blackbird : 2H4, That is *so* totally the idea I was thinking of regarding simplicity and ordinary gauges. However I don't know if I would have used the same exac
40 Post contains images KELPkid : What's the fuel consumption like? How about an engine overhaul? Could you imagine transitioning into one of these as a 100 hour PPL? You'd probably b
41 SlamClick : I think I overstated the tradeoff. Probably more like several hundred hours rather than a thousand. I've been told on some authority that less than a
42 Post contains images KELPkid : AFAIK, all of them in the US are registered as experimentals...however, you need a LOA (letter of authorization) to fly one. I think you can get the
43 Post contains images 2H4 : Oh, you'll see plenty of examples in the next contest this spring or summer.... Until then, I'm getting my fix gathering devious photos.... I'd be mo
44 ATCT : Gotta love the Helio Stallion, a beautiful aircraft. Gets off the ground in no time! Isnt there a Czech company making a single engine turboprop and j
45 Post contains links and images N231YE : I think we may have a tie here, the Microjet 200: View Large View MediumPhoto © AirNikon
46 Post contains links and images 2H4 : Actually, I believe the Ae-270 is manufactured by the same Aero: View Large View MediumPhoto © Piotr Biskupski ...and there's always the Czech Z
47 Post contains images ATCT : The Bede 5 "J" (not the prop shown above) was a very simple machine mechanically, but a very complex machine to fly due to its characteristics. Very f
48 BHMBAGLOCK : GAD is where a lot of people train on the L-39. They also do lots of maintenance and sales on them as well. $750/hr plus fuel at GAD for flight train
49 Post contains links Pilawt : Don't forget the Gulfstream American Peregrine from 1983. -- Pilawt
50 Post contains images 2H4 : Well, we can't allow a tie, now, can we? I present the Cri-Cri jet...all 374 pounds of it: 2H4
51 CRJonBeez : i'm surprised nobody has mentioned the cirrus jet, fitting into the PLJ category. personal light jet... one step up from the SR22, it looks quite simi
52 Mrocktor : Eviation is dead, AFAIK.
53 KBFIspotter : That aircraft actually started out as a stock Courier... There was an excellent article about it in Sport Aviation about 2 years ago, and the owners
54 Post contains images Bond007 : Jimbo
55 Post contains links BHMBAGLOCK : Some of this sounds like BS to me. For example, the Stallion is considerably larger than a Courier. Also, the Stallion pre-dates the Hummer by about
56 Post contains images N231YE : Exactly, a jet powered Ultralight!: ...or if you're really dedicated, a jet powered hang glider!
57 Post contains links 2H4 : Your BS meter needs to be calibrated. KBFIspotter knows what he's talking about. It's not a Stallion. What does it matter whether an aircraft pre-dat
58 Post contains images 2H4 : Ok, I didn't want to have to do this, but you've forced me: 2H4
59 Post contains images N231YE : I see, about time for a variation of the "Identify This" do you say?
60 Post contains links and images SlamClick : Not exactly sure where you are headed with this but I will state with certainty that the plane depicted in reply #32 is NOT a Helio Stallion, never w
61 BHMBAGLOCK : I stand corrected - for some reason I read Stallion when it said Courier. I also missed #32 - ugly beast! My apologies, I'm getting over the flu and
62 Blackbird : In regards for such a plane's use, I would think it would be predominantly for student pilots, however being a jet, and able to be pressurized, it cou
63 KELPkid : Yeah, but the question is: could you make a FADEC unit cheap enough for the low quantities of mass production that a light GA plane would see? FADEC
64 Blackbird : Well, could you use a relatively regular, fairly old-fasioned fuel-control system (1960's era), fitted with a series of relatively simple sensors whic
65 SlamClick : Maybe, provided the instructors had substantial recip and jet experience. The problem I see is the difference between these airplanes. Even if we had
66 Blackbird : Well, at least initially, yeah I see no problems with the instructors needing both recip and jet experience. There are some fast responding turbojets/
67 Post contains links DEVILFISH : What about this?..... http://www.x-jets.com/velocity_jet.html Did it ever progress to a reliably safe, flyable prototype?
68 SlamClick : A friend of mine checks people out in warbird jets including the L-39. His students are mostly businessmen who are low-time (two thousand hours or so
69 Starlionblue : Would a couple of dozen hours of glider time help these people? Sounds like energy management is key.
70 Post contains images 2H4 : I think a couple of dozen hours of glider time would help any pilot! 2H4
71 Post contains images N231YE : Would killing the power on a C172 and gliding it as long as you can count?
72 Post contains images 2H4 : With that much drag, I'm not sure the principles of momentum can be very clearly illustrated... 2H4
73 N231YE : Oh sure they can...just read my signature!
74 SlamClick : Well not a couple dozen hours but I do have a bit of glider time. Hated it! Something about having a useless O-470 or R-985 bolted on out front of me
75 Crjonbeez : AFAIK, yes. now that you mention it, i saw one up at osh kosh this year on the flight line by all the EZs
76 Francoflier : I NEED to know where that guy gets his life insurrance from....
77 Post contains links Marcus : What about this one?.......... http://www.the-jet.com/infobase.html
78 Post contains images Mir : Yes, please. Can we say "getting behind the airplane"? Student pilots sometimes can't even keep up with a 152 - how the hell are they supposed to kee
79 Post contains links DEVILFISH : A few models more came out after this thread's start. Eclipse ECJ - The Ultimate Personal Jet? (by DEVILFISH Jul 23 2007 in Civil Aviation)
80 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : Which reminded me of the Stipa Caproni..... View Large View Medium Photo © Jorgos Tsambikakis They say it's the precursor of the jet engine. Not o
81 Dw747400 : And most are designed with ceilings between FL250 to FL350. The Eclipse ECJ is supposed to be capable of FL410, but a number of engineers have commen
82 Post contains links and images Blackbird : Well, here's what I would have thought up... (Be prepared to cringe) The idea I was thinking of was kind of a cross between these two aircraft primari
83 Blackbird : By the way, what's the story behind that jet-powered hang-glider... I could imagine lots of adrenaline-junkies loving something like that. Andrea Kent
84 Post contains links and images Mir : You too, eh? You might like this video then. -Mir
85 Blackbird : That body-suit that produces lift... not such a fan of it-- it's not powered. I'm not a huge fan of gliders. The jet hang-glider really does fly. Andr
86 Post contains images Dougloid : I see the prototype sitting out on the ramp every week or so when I'm up in Ames. One of the biggest problems is that the cost of maintaining a turbi
87 Blackbird : How much harder is maintaining a turbine vs a piston? Andrea Kent
88 Post contains images KELPkid : From everything I've read, turbines have the advantage, however, due to the exotic metallurgy and high fuel consumption of the engines that go "tweet
89 Blackbird : How much would a turbine engine plus maintanence cost over a recip plus maintenance over the same time period? Is it possible to design turbofans with
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