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A343 VS MD11ER  
User currently offlineAsianguy767 From Singapore, joined Oct 2003, 263 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12158 times:

I wonder if anyone here can shed some light on the performance of these two birds. I know the A343 has slightly longer range capabilities and the design also incorporated crew bunks, but with its not so favourable fuel burn performance, is the MD11ER better?

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12124 times:

The A340-300 has a lower fuel consumption and also generates about half the approach noise of the MD-11. Also in maintanac terms it is more efficient and needs to be overhauled less. Regarding the cabin itself the MD11 compared to the A343 is like day and night. The A343 flies really nice and smooth and the noise is very low. Although the A343 wasn't really such a great successs as the 777's for instance compared to the MD11 look how many were built and are still around as passenger aircraft.

User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11987 times:

Quoting Asianguy767 (Thread starter):
I know the A343 has slightly longer range capabilities

The MD-11ER has a range of 7220nm while the basic A340-313X range is 7200nm, but it can be pushed to 7400nm with an auxiliary tank.


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

Hi!

I flew both airplanes, with SWISS. ZRH/LAX in a MD11 ( HB-IWM ) and LAX/ZRH in a A343 ( HB-JMC ) and like LXA340 said it's har to compare both airplanes. The MD11 had a wider configuration, 3-4-2 against 2-4-2 of the A343, the entertainment in the Airbus was very cool indeed, but we have to understand that the MD11 came more than 10 years earlier. But for me the biggest difference was infact the performance of the MD11....that plane was very, very powerfull, I remember when we took off from ZRH, we had a full load plane to LAX, at that time the longest flight from Europe, full load of fuel ( it took us 12:45 to get there, including some strong headwinds, etc. etc....) and even like that our plane just left pretty well, the typical vortex generation from the tip of the wings and engines was there and all I can say is that I had a wonderfull trip. The return was much more "calm", our Airbus 340 just took all it's time of the world to take off LAX, then slowly started to climb until we got to our FL. The full flight was very, very smooth and the landing was also very cool. So resuming I could say the MD11 was the race/wild one, the A343 the calm, still, soft one.
Regards


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11838 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 3):
MD11 came more than 10 years earlier

Nope, The MD11 first flew in March 1990 and the A343 first flew in october 1991

Quoting CV990 (Reply 3):
performance of the MD11....that plane was very, very powerfull, I remember when we took off from ZRH, we had a full load plane to LAX

no doubt about that. he MD11 is just soo more powerul than the A340 . The 343 has soo much trouble climbing..no wonder given is hairdryer engines !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11811 times:

Hi RootsAir.

When I talked about the age of the MD11 and the A343 I was thinking about SWISS ones, but I actually didn't wrote that!!! But you're right they came pretty close one to the other.
Regards


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 4):
Nope, The MD11 first flew in March 1990

 no  That was January 10th, 1990. See below:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peachair



Cheers.


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11700 times:

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 6):
That was January 10th, 1990. See below:

Ok guess Wikipedia is wrong then

The MD-11 program was launched on December 30, 1986, with orders and commitments for 92 aircraft from 12 airlines and leasing companies. Assembly of the MD-11 began on March 9, 1988, with the first flight of an MD-11F (freighter version) on March 10, 1990. FAA certification was achieved by November 8, 1990.

[Edited 2007-01-26 12:47:08]


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11686 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 5):
When I talked about the age of the MD11 and the A343 I was thinking about SWISS ones, but I actually didn't wrote that!!! But you're right they came pretty close one to the other.

Oh ok I see. HoweverI don't think 343's Swiss has are much different from the very first 343's



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11671 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 4):
he 343 has soo much trouble climbing..no wonder given is hairdryer engines !

Well, below FL10 it out climbs a 744.

pelican


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11642 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 7):
Ok guess Wikipedia is wrong then

Many have quoted Wikipedia on this forum, and very often the encyclopedia was wrong or not kept up to date. Too bad, could be a good tool otherwise.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

As the MD11 is a very powerfull bird it is probably the reason it is very successfull as a freighter. I gues when it comes to the Passenger question the A340 wins by far. however I gues as a freighter the A340 would be inferior compared to the MD11.

User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 11):
As the MD11 is a very powerfull bird it is probably the reason it is very successfull as a freighter.

On the matter of power, the MD-11 is equipped with engines capable of 60 to 62,000lbs of maximum thrust. The A343 engines are capable of 31 to 34,000lbs. Obviously, the trijet is more peppy. It can be a real elevator on take off.


User currently offlineEGBJ From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 498 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11553 times:

It seems the MD-11 is a very sound aeroplane. Why then were only 136 built??

User currently offlineKeego From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11527 times:

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 13):
It seems the MD-11 is a very sound aeroplane. Why then were only 136 built??

No demand, At the time the 767 was out and the 777 was on its way. These are much easier to maintain as they have only 2 engines. A big problem with the tri-jets is that the no2 engine is up in the tail and hard to get to when checks and repairs need to be carried out so airlines stuck with the twinjets which could do the same job.


User currently offlineEFHK From Finland, joined Nov 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11509 times:

Also, A340 is a bit slower than M11.


One of the best places in the world: McDonald's in T2 at FRA.
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11479 times:

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 13):
It seems the MD-11 is a very sound aeroplane. Why then were only 136 built??

In the beginning the MD 11 did not perform as good as it was promised. MDD could fix all these bugs later but as Boeing took over MDD they stopped the production since they did not want a competitioner for their own 777.
Maybe if Boeing did not take over MDD in the early 90s we would have seen more than 136 MD 11s being build. Definitetly not as much as A330/A340 and 777s but enough especially as a freighter we could have seen another 100 aircraft and maybe some more passenger aircraft as well. Maybe MDD also could have sold some more MD 90s and MD 95s to grace our skies............. Skies would be little bit more interesting with MDD being around



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11478 times:

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 13):
It seems the MD-11 is a very sound aeroplane. Why then were only 136 built??

Hi EGBJ,

200 frames of the MD11 were built. If we include the DC10/MD11 family then the figure rises up to 646 frames. While it may not be considered a runaway success the DC10/MD11 family did rather well. It also had to battle, with other airplanes such as the L1011, A343, B772.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineEGBJ From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 498 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11446 times:

Roger that...thanks for the explanation guys  Smile

User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11421 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 9):
Well, below FL10 it out climbs a 744.

Not quite.. the power to weight ratio on the 744 is higher than it is at MTOW compared to the 342 343 345 and 346 all at MTOW.

+ the 744 will reach a minimum FL of FL300 at a MTOW takeoff.. (straight from the manual)

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlinePanAmOldDC8 From Barbados, joined Dec 2006, 960 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11403 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 7):
The MD-11 program was launched on December 30, 1986, with orders and commitments for 92 aircraft from 12 airlines and leasing companies. Assembly of the MD-11 began on March 9, 1988, with the first flight of an MD-11F (freighter version) on March 10, 1990. FAA certification was achieved by November 8, 1990.

Stand to be corrected, but didn't this aircraft start out as a DC10?Everone seems to forget that Douglas was the one to start this breed



Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11373 times:

Compare these 2 climb rates
MD11¨(KL MD11 AMS-BON-LIM)



A340-300(IB 343 MAD-SJO)



NO COMMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11317 times:
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I had no luck finding it, but there's a video somewhere online that I've seen where an LX 343 takes off. It rotates, and the plane lifts up ever so slightly, but the back wheels of the main bogeys stay on the ground for 7 or 8 seconds after it starts to lift up. The plane has such a hard time leaving the ground!

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11245 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
Oh ok I see. HoweverI don't think 343's Swiss has are much different from the very first 343's

They are the most capable A343s - higher thrust rated and with the new EICAS screens that the A345/6 have, amongst other things. They are designeted E for Enhanced and I understand SAS have the new enhanced model, and the South African A343s currently out on wet lease to Jet Airways are also of the enhanced standard.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11243 times:

Did any MD-11ERs ever get built? The only versions I've ever noticed are the standard model, the combi and the freighter.

25 CHRISBA777ER : I think Zeke will be interested in what you have to say. I understood that that was not the case and that indeed the A343 at MTOW will outclimb the 7
26 Pelican : The power to weight ratio isn't everything. As far as I understand the wing plays also an importan role. And don't forget I wrote below FL10. pelican
27 RootsAir : Sorry it might be out of subject, but its still not worth a 777
28 CV990 : Hi! RootsAir, believe it, there are some differences, specially inside.....I flew TP A343 and it's like comparing a Mercedes 220 from 1991 and another
29 RootsAir : Oh I suppose the interiors must be very different (only in IB it remains very boring with no IFE). I ment on the tecnhical point of view
30 CHRISBA777ER : Well see its funny because Swiss, Lufthansa, Virgin Atlantic, Jet Airways, Air Tahiti Nui, Gulf Air, Turkish, Olympic, Iberia, South African, Kingfis
31 Post contains links Magyarorszag : Yes, five aircraft. 48743 / 48746 / 48753 / 48755 / 48758 Cheers.
32 Gigneil : What? All A340-313Xs have the centre fuel tank. Regular A340-313s have a 7200 nm. There is no competition between the A340-313X and the M11. The A340
33 Beeweel15 : Well if Boeing kept the MD11 line open several of the above airlines would have purchased the MD11. As for VS I remember when they bought the A340 se
34 Warren747sp : But the MD-11 is such a gorgeous plane to look at not to mention the kick ass ride. The A343 by comparison is very plain and boring plane to look at o
35 Adria : ....yeah I guess an average passenger really can fell the difference between an A340 climb rate and the one from the MD-11.....but if that's so imagi
36 Kappel : Because the 777 can go farther, carry more people and more cargo, as it's bigger (and a lot heavier) than the a343. So while the a343 burns less fuel
37 A342 : Freighters - yes, passenger aircraft - if any at all, just with big discounts. That's only your opinion, and you know what ? The airlines frankly don
38 Pelican : Exactly I never had doubts on a 744 take off, although it has an even slower initial climb than a 343. pelican
39 MCOflyer : I like both so I can not complain. The A343 would make a good package freighter for airlines like UPS. MCOflyer
40 LongHaul67 : Why did Airbus decide to equip the A340 with so little thrust? Any ideas? Its pretty apparent that one of the main features of a widebody is to have t
41 Gigneil : Because its completely unnecessary. NS
42 Post contains links and images KPDX : This one: http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra..._Airlines_Aviation_Video-7710.html KPDX
43 Brendows : It was supposed to be equipped with the PW Superfan, but this project was cancelled, and Airbus had to turn to CFM for a solution - a modified engine
44 MPDPilot : some of those airlines Finnair in particular have had untill recently used the MD-11 exclusively, and I bet if boeing was still making them they woul
45 Post contains images MD80fanatic : Oh, how I love these comparison threads. You guys and gals have to dig pretty deep to put down the MD11. Looks, performance, cockpit visibility, paylo
46 Gigneil : I am sorry but unless someone can produce documentation there is no auxiliary tank feature for the A340-300. NS
47 Zeke : I generally fly the 343 with an assume outside temperature of about 55 degrees and 20% derate climb on all sectors, meaning I have about the effective
48 Post contains links Zeke : http://www.content.airbusworld.com/S.../html/acrobat/fast_35_act_p2_5.pdf
49 LTU932 : Wasn't it IAE which proposed the Superfan but later decided to cancel the project?
50 Post contains images Leskova : Each and every time that there is a comparison thread like this, I'm amazed at how many people bring up completely irrelevant points - such as the loo
51 Magyarorszag : I've watched that video, and the A343 main bogeys stay on the ground but for "only" 4-5 seconds. Yes, that's right. IAE is a joint company formed by
52 Analog : If it's wrong and you are sure of it, FIX IT. AFAIK most articles can be edited by anyone. Even better, reference your sources when you do edit the a
53 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Yes, aside from all things technical, I don't know how anyone could dislike the MD-11. It is in a league of it's own, the only modern trijet airliner
54 LHRBFSTrident : Don't get me wrong - as I haven't actually spoken with him - but I am pretty sure this was not the basis for SRB's fleet decision! That may have been
55 Wing : Without knowing the weights,temps, loads,thrust settings of the particular flights,your comparison is very much misleading and irrelevant. A340 engin
56 Magyarorszag : I like it, its second on my list. Really enjoy the rocket take off... That was a bad start, but the cancellation of SQ order was like an earth quake
57 A342 : The comparison is somewhat invalid. While airliner trijets are a dieing breed, the A300 was the first twin widebody - a revolutionary change which ca
58 TrijetsRMissed : Yes, that cancellation was to the MD-11 what the DL cancellation was to the MD-90. Ironically, after the range was increased by 8%, the MD-11 would h
59 A342 : I don't see where it has a technological edge, so please enlighten me. Maybe a bit more glass in the cockpit, but what else ? I didn't doubt that.
60 TrijetsRMissed : Yes, the glass cockpit is noticeably different. The MD-11 has six CRT displays. Doppler radar was at DL's request. Winglets, the redesigned wing trai
61 Prebennorholm : The problem here is the general speed limit of 250 kts below 10,000 feet. The 744 cannot clean up at MTOW at 250 kts. Or at least, if cleaned up, it
62 Leskova : In short: yes. Too long to even be called embarrassing... though whether or not it'll be less, equally or more successful as the MD11 still remains t
63 A342 : Ok, but as the A300 and MD-11 didn't compete, those are non-issues. 2-4-3 is simply great. Whether you travel in groups of 2, 3 or 4, you will probab
64 Magyarorszag : The larger intake was one of the few changes in the PIP which could not be retrofitted. The first aircraft on the production line which had the new i
65 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : To each their own. As an airliner enthusiast, in my eyes it's one of a kind, which makes it unique. I don't run an airline so I could care less how m
66 Magyarorszag : How could that be, when the first new intake was installed on an aircraft in November 1994. Plus, the final part of the PIP, Phase IV came in early 1
67 RootsAir : come on ! everyone knows that an MD 11 climbs a lot faster than an A340
68 TrijetsRMissed : I was talking about the range alone, not the No.2 intake PIP. In early 1994, McDonnell Douglas announced the increased range changes from their aggre
69 Wing : It still doesnt change the fact that your comparison was irrelevant and misleading.Airplane performance is a serious science,it doesnt work as everyo
70 Magyarorszag : SQ had placed its order for the MD-11 (5+15) in January 1990 with deliveries expected between 1994-1996. On August 2nd, 1991, the airline cancelled t
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