BA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 6 Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6224 times:
Apologies if this has been discussed before but it had not shown on the search function.
Today's edition of the Sunday Express contains an article expressing a danger in the above aircraft as some harmful toxins from the jet fumes leak into the aircraft cabins and cockpits.
Apparently members of the crew have been reporting headaches and nausea after the exposure to this fumes, and there have been apparently been hundreds of these incidents, mainly with these types of aircraft.
One pilot od the BAe 146 said there was no question of oil leaking through the oil seals and contaminating the cabin " It happens all the time, pilots just accept it as normal. Evidence from one LCC (I presume either flyBe or BAConnect) stated that between January and September 2006 there were 35 "fume events"
Is there any truth in all this, and is it as common and dangerous as this tabloid sheet is making out?
If this doesn't belong on this forum, MODs move it to Civil, but I thought I might get a more intelligent answer here
Troubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6189 times:
All BAe146 I´ve worked on smell terrible when using APU bleed for air conditioning. Especially during preparation for the first flight of the day. Operators used different procedures to handle this:
- manual temp regulation with a low duct temperature (around 30° C) to prevent possible oil fumes
- manual temp regulation with high duct temperatures (around 80°C) to "burn" all possible oil in the duct system.
I know about an investigation report from BAe Systems and the british CAA about this problem. But as I did´nt put my hands on that nice ship for a couple of years now, things may have changed. Hope some guys here with more current experience can shed some light.
By the way, we´ve had some issues of oil smell during pack operation on the EMB145 as well during the past years...
TristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5940 times:
There has been a lot of investigation into this. There was a big thread on pprune last year with links to all the sources.
On the B757 it is a known problem, but it is just a smell. Scientific research has proved that the amount of oil in the air is so low that it is not harmful, but a couple of BA pilots think it is and write it up in the log all the time so it causes a lot of problems.
In the early days of jet engines, all aircraft smelled oil in the cabin, especially when you turned on the bleeds, but nowadays it is not so common as seal technology has improved.
The HS 146 did have problems, I have read the reports from Australia and Sweden on it, but they are still flying.
Just a smell? Excerpt from report on incident to G-CPET (10th March 2006):
"After starting both engines, the co-pilot reported that he could smell fumes and discussed the matter with the commander. After about two minutes of taxiing, the co‑pilot started to feel light-headed, euphoric and
unwell, the commander also felt light-headed and the aircraft was halted on the taxiway to see if the situation improved. Both flight crew members continued to feel abnormal - the co-pilot considered himself partially
incapacitated – but the cabin staff appeared unaffected.
"Both engines were shut down as the crew no longer felt fit to taxi the aircraft and it was towed back to the stand. During the tow, the co-pilot donned his oxygen mask....."
"2.26 There have been reports of cabin air fumes on board Australian BAe 146
aircraft since at least 1985. In 1982 the United States Federal Aviation Authority and National Transport Safety Bureau conducted tests on the BAe 146. Ansett told the Committee its initial reported fume occurrence was in 1991, when an East West Airlines crew first reported odours on the BAe 146 series 300 aircraft. East West Airlines later became part of Ansett Australia.27
2.27 The ATSB told the Committee that between 1991 and 1 November 1999,
when the Bureau gave evidence, 93 occurrences of fumes in aircraft had been
2.28 These occurrences:
… all fall into the general description of smoke, fumes or fire within the
cabin or cockpit of an aircraft from whatever source. Those occurrences
could be a simple as the spillage of food in a galley causing a fire to failure
of an electronic components causing fumes to this particular occurrence -
that is, the ingress of fumes from a failed seal within an engine - to multiple
reports of ‘nothing found’ on investigation by the operator.28
2.29 The ATSB’s only substantial investigation of fumes leaking into the cabin of a BAe 146 arose from an incident where the pilot of a National Jet Systems freight plane became incapacitated after being exposed to fumes in the cockpit while descending into Melbourne Airport in 1997. The ATSB which was then the Bureau of Air Safety (BASI) conducted an extensive inquiry of events of a similar nature and reported that the incidents were “far from rare”.29"
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
CFTOA From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5025 times:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the CRJ have a similar problem?
I flew Jazz 8831 last week on a CRJ-705, and sat in seat 27 A, which is right beside engine #1.
during the startup sequence, I smelt a slight bit of emmision, which seemed to fade away after a minute.
Is this a similar problem to that of the BAe-146 and 752?
Access-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 4786 times:
The only time I ever smelled something bad from the ducts of a BAe 146-300 was in 1991 on an Air Wisconsin, N611AW....It smelled like someone puked into the ducts......and the next time I flew on that same plane in 1993...The same smell still came out of the ducts. Either they couldn't get rid of the smell or someone repuked in the ducts....
As for fuel smells in the cabin, I would assume that pretty much all airplanes have some sort of seepage of their own exhaust back into the cabin in one way or another or at some point.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4699 times:
Quoting BA787 (Thread starter): Today's edition of the Sunday Express contains an article expressing a danger in the above aircraft as some harmful toxins from the jet fumes leak into the aircraft cabins and cockpits.
Ive heard that the WX 146s are notoirius for having smells of fumes inside the cabins.
Access-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4604 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23): Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
....It smelled like someone puked into the ducts.
Odd description.Would that be a Fuel or Oil fume smell.
I assumed it was PUKE......Ive puked a few times in my life and I know what that smells like....It just seemed to be caught in the ducting....maybe in the filters....Never considered it to be fuel or oil.....
As for fuel or oil smells coming thru ducts, I just thought it was normal....I mean with all the RAM air that the air cycling machine gets from the engines, well....any slight smells wouldnt surprise me......
In the winter you probabaly get a smell from the heating elements as they are put into service on planes. Everything has its old aroma.....People just freak out over nothing.....