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How Clean Are Your Logbooks?  
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

And by clean, I mean astetics- any smudges, blue pen marks, strikethroughs, etc?

I have a bit of a coffee spill on the top edges of the pages of my logbook- caused by an "empty" cup being thrown into my helmet bag, which evidently still had a sip or two left in it- result, some messed up books. What should I do about it?

How critically will airlines examine your books during an interview? Can they judge you on slopyness, or will they ask for a copy of the last two pages and be done with it?

DeltaGuy

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Some look at them carefully, others don't look at them at all. Overall I think people worry too much about it, I don't think you should worry at all.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Mine has a large crack on the front cover, from being smashed by a seat in a Cessna.

Otherwise, my logbook is perfectly fine.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Mine had a few coffee stains, various line-outs and corrections, and has various shades of "black" ink. Most employers understand that this is a working document and, while you try to keep it clean, accidents and mistakes happen. So long as it is fairly neat and legible and it is obvious you have made the effort to keep it that way, future employers will understand.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2511 times:

My logbook has a few corrections, line outs, and re-writes. The pages are in good shape but the hard cover is looking worn these days. I agree with the above, most employers know this is your story, history, work in progress, etc. From what I hear as long as your times are correct and add up to within a couple tenths of an hour you will be good. That being said I would imagine keeping it as accurate as possible is the best bet.


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2462 times:

This is a story of having clean and especially correctly written logboogs;

This JAROPS nowadays brought very big differences in European aviaiton.Logbooks were not excluded.I have ATPL since 2001 but as Turkeys CAA,adjusts to JAA we convert our licences according to JAR's.Logbook should be presented during the conversion procedures.And here is my surprise ;

After 7 years of airline flying the person working in the Turkish CAA found that 70 hours of PIC flying I logged was logged as DUAL( Dual means training flights with the Instructor onboard the airplane,I wasnt aware that I should also write that under the PIC column. They check the last page of the logboog and sum of PIC+Copilot should be equal to your total flight hours.What happens is now after 4000 hours of total flying,my PIC time is now 70 hours different than the total sum should read.I was like "who cares about 70 hours of C172 Flight,besides its logged and stamped only not written in PIC column but to DUAL column.But hell no said the friendly person on the CAA,I corrected the page from 1998 and after that page each and every "PAGE TOTAL" had to be cleaned and rewriten again(considering the fact that I am using my 3rd logboog) it was a pain giving process.

So my advice to all new pilots, keep your logbooks correct and accurate.And always have it stamped and signed by the chief pilot to prove it.Unstamped logbooks is equal to 0 flight time even it is written 100000 hours on it.



Widen your world
User currently offlineDeltaguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Wing, unfortunately we don't have stamps over here, AFAIK. Just your signature. I know military logbooks have a signature provided by your CO or OPSO.

Is it kosher to use white-out to make a correction? I mean not on every page, but I had a few boo-boos and simply writing over it didn't work.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting Deltaguy (Reply 6):
Is it kosher to use white-out to make a correction?

No. A single line through with your initials is how to do it. Obliteration of an entry is a not acceptable. If you can't fit the correction next to the error, make an entry on the next line with the not explaining the correction.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineRyanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

This was discussed here a few weeks ago in detail - Logbook Etiquette (by JSC_23 Feb 6 2003 in Tech Ops).

I try to keep mine as neat as possible, no mistakes yet. Black ink only as well! It really is a crucial document so I really do take care in making sure that everything is properly entered.

737


User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting Deltaguy (Reply 6):
Wing, unfortunately we don't have stamps over here, AFAIK. Just your signature

Yes I know,when I finished my flights at Embry Riddle I my logbook was not signed and stamped.But my father(who is a captain) reminded me to have it stamped before coming to Turkey.Now I am curious how come the airlines in the US credit your flight experience?I am sure there has been occurrences that a candidate may exaggerate the flying experience to get the job?How does the airlines deal with this?

For me if I need a corrcetion I only draw a single line on it and write the correct one.If it needs to be "tippexed" and changes a sum on the flight experience I sign my initial on it.Thanks to our crew rostering if anybody needs an explanation about an insertion on my logbook,I can always recieve an official detail copy of that particular flight.



Widen your world
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Mine is pretty neat. No marks, all in one colour pen, blue, and i make sure its always in that for aesthetic purposes.

I've filled about 2 pages of mine so far (done about 20 hours) so theres not been to much chance for it to go wrong  silly 

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

I've never had anyone go ape over my logbook in the US. I've made mistakes, used different color pens, some of the page totals are in pencil, some old math errors are corrected years later in a single line with an explanation in the remarks. Overall it's in good shape though. My logbook has been reviewed by examiners, airlines, and the FAA. Not a single one has batted an eye about any of it.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 10):
I've filled about 2 pages of mine so far (done about 20 hours) so theres not been to much chance for it to go wrong

My first 2 pages were neat too,it got slopy after the end of the first logbook,it got crappier after the end of second logbook,and as I near the end of my third logbook nowadays it almost got berzerk.Its because I have to write after every leg after finishing writing the maintenance book,crew roostering book,flight plan envelopes,engine parameters of that leg.And sometimes we have to change aircraft after that leg,so I have to do these over and over again.If I don t write the logbook then I loose the end of the rope in a very few days.I end up trying to catch up writing 3, 4 legged days and whoops there goes 12 lines to mess the book.



Widen your world
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2311 times:

i've got a few cross outs and one or two torn pages. most of my helo time was kept for me and i only got a print out. i entered all that into a logbook manually. it took me almost a month to do since i was trying to keep it as neat as possible. i keep my logs in a ziploc bag when they're in my flightbag, at least they'll stay dry that way. i've never white-outed anything there, just a cross out for boo-boos. the more tattered of the two books is my airplane log, as it had been floating around my flightbag since i began training. it got wet once but i left it on the counter with a hardryer blowing on it for an hour. for the most part, i've used the same pan and ink cartridges to fill them out.


anybody ever use pencils to fill out logs? we do so at work, and i only know a handful of pilots who do so. the reason i ask is graphite lasts longer than ink.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2310 times:

Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 14):
Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.


IIRC, a licensed pilot must have a government issued photo ID (driver's license, military ID, etc), pilots license/certificate, a valid medical, and logbook with him/her (to show currency) at all times if he/she is going to operate an aircraft. Otherwise, you are correct.

[Edited 2007-02-21 03:43:04]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting Futureualpilot (Reply 15):
nd logbook with him/her (to show currency) at all times if he/she is going to operate an aircraft

There is nothing that requires you to carry your logbook with you, or proof of (pilot) currency for that matter, unless you are a student pilot flying a solo cross-country flight, or a recreational pilot under certain circumstances. A "reasonable request" for your logbook means you set up an appointment to go see an inspector at the local FSDO. Like I said, there are a few reasons to carry your logbook in the airplane, namely the two I just listed (and having it with you for an instructor's signature), and probably a couple obscure ones that don't pertain to regs. Most of the time there is no need to have it and you shouldn't have it.



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 16):
A "reasonable request" for your logbook means you set up an appointment to go see an inspector at the local FSDO.

Good call, sorry I incorrectly recalled that FAR.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 14):
Why does anyone take their logbook flying with them unless they need it for an instructor to sign? I'm sure there's some other valid reason, but most of the time it's pointless and just helps damage it.

JAR OPS requires the pilot of the airplane should have the "logbook present at all times.It is one of the items checked during SAFA (safety assesment of foreign aircraft)checks and the inspector determines that you are within your duty limits by looking at your past flight hours for the last day,last week and last month.



Widen your world
User currently offlineDKCFII From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

I try to keep it relatively neat, but there's definately a quite a few whiteouts and crossouts in my first logbook. I'm trying to keep the second one a little neater. I just total up my hours at the end of the week one time, this stops a lot of the wear and tear from playing with it a lot.

User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2006 times:

Anybody here uses the electronic logbooks?I checked the evaluatioN version of "logbook pro" which looks pretty useful but there is only one problem.It seems to be only logging the hours in tens of an hour,but I log my times as 1:45 minutes instead of 1.7. Anybody here has any information about "logbookpro" how I can convert the times to European style rather than the American?Or I will appreciate if anybody knows any other programmes which will serve my needs.


Widen your world
User currently offlineUsair320 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Mine is clean being that it has only flown 55 hrs.

User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3148 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

Wing,

I'm using logbook pro as a way to make sure everything in my paper log matches up. I like it, especially as I start to fly a variety of makes and models. It's been handy the couple of times I've had to fill out an 8710 since starting with it and extremely helpful while filling out insurance forms for my students and keeping the resume up-to-date.

As for the "European" style, I'm not sure. I've had great experience with the company that produces logbook pro when it comes to customer support and questions. I'd send them an email.



DMI
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