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What Is "lahso" On Airport Diagram Charts?  
User currently offlineMD11Fanatic From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8135 times:

Hey all,

I was just looking over the KLGB chart and I see a number of areas indicated as "LAHSO" and they appear usually 2/3 of the way down the runway and usually before or after an intersecting runway. I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

What does LAHSO stand for officially?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

Land and Hold Short Operations...

If you accept a LAHSO clearance, you have to stop before the intersecting runway. I do believe a hold short line is actually painted on the runway where LAHSO ops are specified...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8132 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Land And Hold Short Operations.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8125 times:

Quoting MD11Fanatic (Thread starter):
I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

Your feelings are correct!

Land and Hold Short Operations (LAHSO)



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8117 times:

Quoting MD11Fanatic (Thread starter):
I have a feeling it has something to do with landing and hold short -something- because of the location of these lines.

 checkmark . As stated above, it is Land And Hold Short Operations (LAHSO).


User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

It stands for Land and Hold Short Operations. ATC will give you the option to accept the clearence or not. They will give you the length in which you must be stopped, which determines whether or not you accept it. If you do you must stop before the intersecting runway. It basicaly helps them out so they can get two planes down at the same time or have someone else depart on the intersecting runway.


The Ohio Player
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8104 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 5):
If you do you must stop before the intersecting runway

Might not be an intersecting runway, could be a point on your landing runway to hold short of for aircraft crossing the runway on taxiways such as like this LAHSO on Runway 8R/26L at KIAH:

http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0702/05461AD.PDF

Also found at other airports that cross traffic from the parallel runways such as KDFW.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4069 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8012 times:

BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 7):
BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.

As do some other airlines.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7930 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 7):
BA flight ops specifically forbid their crews from taking part in LAHSO operations.

whats the reasoning?



121
User currently offlineIahflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 9):
whats the reasoning?

My best guess among what I am sure is many, they don't train for it so it isn't in their FOM nor is it easy to keep up with all the possible configurations at some airports, and in some cases it doesn' t make a lick of sense. Example, if a GA aircraft is involved in a LAHSO operation guess who has to do the hold short? No not the guy flying a C172 who has a 6,500' LAHSO point but the guy in the B772 after an 8 hr international flight and has a 8,500' LAHSO point!



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10338 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7865 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
I do believe a hold short line is actually painted on the runway where LAHSO ops are specified...

Indeed. At KBOS, they actually installed pulsating lights I believe (similar to lights found at hold short lines on taxiways).



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

One other point about LAHSO operations is that they are prohibited for student pilots for obvious reasons.

As soon as a person receives their Private Pilot Certificate (not a license, it's a CERTIFICATE!!!), then they can accept a LAHSO clearance. However, it is completely voluntary. If you do not feel comfortable landing in the given distance, then don't accept the clearance. ATC can never force you to accept a LAHSO clearance.

Your CptSpeaking



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineSpeedracer1407 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7760 times:

Question about LAHSO:

Both controlers and pilots must be prepared for the unexpected, so what happens if a large get accepts LAHSO, then floats on landing, suffers a severe brake or other mechanical problem that results in either a longer than expected landing rollout or a late goaround that extends the plane's time on the runway beyond the intersection? it this simply an accepted risk or do controllers make sure that no two planes cross eachother's paths at any time even during LAHSO?



Dassault Mercure: the plane that has Boeing and Airbus shaking in their boots.
User currently offlineMD11Fanatic From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7733 times:

Thanks everyone for the explanation!

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 18 hours ago) and read 7630 times:

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 12):
not a license, it's a CERTIFICATE!!!

Don't get too hung up on it .... regardless of what it might say on the certificate, the FAA uses both words extensively. Just go to www.faa.gov and do a search on 'pilot's license'. In fact, if you want to change your address, you go to the 'change your license' screen.

The words are used interchangeably.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 18 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

And, in case anyone was wondering, it is pronounced "lasso", just like the thing that cowboys catch cows with or bad guys get caught with in cheesy westerns...  Wink


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 7600 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 15):
Don't get too hung up on it .... regardless of what it might say on the certificate, the FAA uses both words extensively. Just go to www.faa.gov and do a search on 'pilot's license'. In fact, if you want to change your address, you go to the 'change your license' screen.

The words are used interchangeably.

 checkmark 

True, thats just a kick of the local DPE here...yes, license can be used as well and everybody knows what you're talking about, but certificate is the correct term. The same guy goes into convulsions when people say map...its a chart!!!!  biggrin 

Your CptSpeaking



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 7588 times:

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 13):
so what happens if a large get accepts LAHSO, then floats on landing, suffers a severe brake or other mechanical problem that results in either a longer than expected landing rollout or a late goaround that extends the plane's time on the runway beyond the intersection? it this simply an accepted risk or do controllers make sure that no two planes cross eachother's paths at any time even during

Best case, some paperwork has to be done. Worst case, roll CFR. Some carriers may permit thier crews to accept LAHSO/SIRO clearences, but as far as I know, the crew always has the option to decline for any reason. Further, the prohibition usually extends to any participation in these operations. So if an aircraft on an intersecting runway accepts a LAHSO clearence, the prohibited aircraft cannot accept a landing clearence until the other aircraft is down and clear. As for GA, don't accept it unless you are certain you can make it, and leave yourself a healthy margin for error.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineKraw From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7389 times:

we implemented lahso recently. It's to increase capacity of the airport without compromising safety (or some other long gov definition Big grin) I can't say I've ever heard it used. It allows ATC to cross aircraft at the departure end of the actives. It's great for moving aircraft under tow or maintenance moves, from the north side to the terminals. There's a hold short marking with in pavement lights (white) and there's also an 858R sign on each side of the runway. For us, the signs have the corresponding taxiway designation on them (we have no intersecting Rwy's)

Twy V will do away with the need for lahso on Rwy 8R. That's still a few weeks away though.



Pastey White!!!!!
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

Yeah, whenever I fly GA and accept a LAHSO clearance, it always seems to add a lot of stress to the landing process - probably at the worst time you need any extra stress. Even on a long runway, the #1 thing on my mind is having to stop at the line ... even if it's 5000' down the runway. Also my concern is what happens if I have to go-around.

I used to do it a lot at PWK, but a few times, especially in less than perfect conditions, I've chosen not to accept it and do an extra pattern or whatever.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
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