SansVGs From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 190 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2854 times:
Does anyone know if there has ever been an accident in a jet due to icing? I am not talking about contamination accidents on take-off (or shortly after), but rather while actually in flight. Thanks.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15870 posts, RR: 66 Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
Interesting question. I think you will find that these are rather rare since at modern cruising altitudes icing is not very likely. The air is too cold to hold any significant moisture.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
WrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2813 times:
The 1994 American Eagle ATR 72 (Turbo-Prop) was directly attributable to inflight icing accumulation.
Descent thru icing conditions is more likely to cause accumulation than at cruising at altitude.
SansVGs From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 190 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2789 times:
Let me be more precise in my question: For only Jets in any phase of flight. But not including take off.
Here is why. I have done google searches, and found nothing, but a "maybe" involving a CL 600 on a go-around in Canada. Also two C560's had split-boot bridging issues ten or so years ago. I don't wish to jinx myself, but most jets seem to be immune from ice accidents...assuming they take off "clean."
Every plane picks up ice in a different way. And changing altitude by 4000 feet can usually get one out of the ice. The higher flight levels usually don't provide icing. But jets have to get up and down agian.
Thanks again if anyone can find some info.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
ATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2035 posts, RR: 41 Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
Quoting SansVGs (Reply 3): I don't wish to jinx myself, but most jets seem to be immune from ice accidents...
I think you mean jets with De-Icing and Anti-Ice systems.
I know the Dornier 328 Jet has Boots, while most "jet" aircraft are equipped with hot wings.
Anywho I cant think of any ice related accidents (probably some incidents out there) that are directly attributed to icing on board a jet aircraft while in cruise.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5930 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2773 times:
Quoting ATCT (Reply 4): I know the Dornier 328 Jet has Boots, while most "jet" aircraft are equipped with hot wings.
Transport category, perhaps. I can think of many bizjets I have re-fueled that were equipped with de-icing boots...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5930 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2692 times:
Quoting A342 (Reply 8): Actually the Do 328 is used by airlines, additionally, there's the corporate / VIP version.
That probably has more to do with the fact that the Do 328 Jet was based on the Do 328 turboprop... They probably still got their FIKI (flight into known icing) certification nonetheless.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
Futureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2561 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2607 times:
Air Florida 92(flight no. ?) crashed due to ice I believe.
FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2511 times:
There was a case where a jet (bizjet) scouting for icing conditions for icing certification trials of a prototype helicopter ended up crashing (gear up in field, no serious injuries IIRC) due to ice. The PIC was late in activating the anti-icing, so upper surface ice had formed. The anti-icing caused the ice to break loose and end up in the engines.
Rgds,
/Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
SansVGs From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 190 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2490 times:
Hawk21M, Thanks for the list. Interesting reading. The only two on the list that came close to the criteria were the Sabreliner in PIT (They forgot the ENG ANTI-ICE) and the forgotten pitot heat in the 737-400.
FredT, Wow--what a story. One would think while out scouting for icing conditions that "ice" would be on the brain, and at least have the "ENG Anti-ICE" on.
[Edited 2007-03-15 15:08:52]
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
A342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4655 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2434 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9): That probably has more to do with the fact that the Do 328 Jet was based on the Do 328 turboprop... They probably still got their FIKI (flight into known icing) certification nonetheless.
I don't understand why they shouldn't have got it ?
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5930 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2422 times:
Quoting A342 (Reply 15): I don't understand why they shouldn't have got it ?
Well, the reason most transport category jets use hot wings instead of boots is because hot wings offer vastly superior ice protection...hot wings cannot be bridged
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2323 times:
Quoting A342 (Reply 17): What does "bridged" mean in this context ?
It was previously taught to let ice form for a few minutes prior to activating the pneumatic boots. The philosophy was that if the layer of ice was too thin, it would bulge with the inflation of the boots rather than crack and break away, and thus form an ice bridge under which the boots could inflate and deflate without any further effect on the icing.
The philosophy these days, at least on the aircraft I'm around, seems to be to turn it all on at the first suspicion of icing and leave it on until well clear.
Rgds,
/Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
A342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4655 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2250 times:
Quoting FredT (Reply 21): It was previously taught to let ice form for a few minutes prior to activating the pneumatic boots. The philosophy was that if the layer of ice was too thin, it would bulge with the inflation of the boots rather than crack and break away, and thus form an ice bridge under which the boots could inflate and deflate without any further effect on the icing.
Futureatp From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2046 times:
I vaugely remember a story that fits. I remember reading about a 727 that had its pitot static-system ice up in flight and (no pun intended) froze the airspeed indicator at a speed higher than desired. The crew ended up stalling the aircraft cause they did not realize that the pitot-static heat(unable to recall proper terminology) failed or simply forgot to activate it.
That is all i can remember. Im sure it happend in the US and may not have been a passenger flight or even a pt 121 or 135 flight. Im too lazy to dig up my aviation disaster books out of storage
SansVGs From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 190 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1917 times:
i have heard both sides of the bridging argument. I think some people just like to let ice build up on booted planes so they can watch it blow off when they activate the system.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
25 OPNLguy: That was a NWA 727 on Dec 1, 1974, the same day that TWA 514 (also a 727) went down on approach into IAD. The NWA flight was a positioning ferry rela
26 EMBQA: There was a Comair E120 around the same time frame that went down due to in-flight icing as well.
27 FredT: Was some renewed fuzz about a Citation which stalled in from 1500' on approach due to icing on Feb 16th 2005 just now. Rgds, /Fred
28 Starlionblue: Well. This was sort of take-off. Very close at least. Scary day as I recall. Typical Swedish disaster though. No deaths. Compare to the Gripen crash
29 SansVGs: Odin must have been the original aviation god.
30 Starglider: Unfortunately Odin remains a myth, certainly as the original aviation god. I remember one ice related crash vividly which does not fit in that catego
31 KELPkid: I'm home sick from work today with a bad cold (thanks, wifey for sharing it ). I was reading my new Flying magazine which came last weekend, and pg.
32 Starglider: Aircraft in question was actually a Fokker 70 (F28 Mk0070) operated by Austrian Airlines, approaching Munich in icing conditions. Due to a prolonged
33 SansVGs: Interesting. I complain about my current plane requiring full air brake to stay slow in icing. This is because the auto-throttles will not retard thr
34 Lemurs: Does anyone have any diagrams/pictures handy of de-icing boots in action or how they're installed/used? The whole idea of de-icing and airplane with m
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