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Landing Approach Speeds  
User currently offlineCupraIbiza From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 836 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

Can someone help me with finding a list of aircraft landing approach speeds?

I watch varied size planes landing. Smaller propeller planes seem to be approaching at a very very faster rate that large jets.

IS it an optical illusion? That is do they seem to be going faster because they are smaller? Or are they indeed going a lot faster??


Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7071 times:

Sometimes ATC asks prop planes to make their best approach speed (fastest) when there is traffic behind them that has to go faster. (Like a 737 doing about 130-140 kts) Such a request was given to me while landing at ATL in a 172 while a A319 was behind me. Also one could say that they look faster because they have a nose low attitude because they lack leading edge slats. In reality they are normally going slower than jets but just look faster. I hope this helps. Hopefully some of our regional jet/prop pilots can shed some more light on the matter.


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User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6963 times:
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It is indeed an optical illusion. It's based on how long it takes an aircraft to travel it's own length.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offline3DPlanes From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6831 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
It is indeed an optical illusion. It's based on how long it takes an aircraft to travel it's own length.

I think it also has to do with our mind's built in assumption of size. When you see an airliner at a distance, your mind says "its a 737" and so you automatically guestimate the distance based on how big the plane -should- look given that it -is- a 737. But what if it was a 777?

For a 777 to -appear- as large as a 737, it must be quite a bit further away. Even if the 777 was flying at higher speed, the greater distance results in less apparent motion - so it looks like its flying a lot slower.



"Simplicate and add lightness." - Ed Heinemann
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6809 times:

Lockheed L1011, at maximum landing weight (368,000 pounds), Vref 144.

Same aircraft, but modified with a heavier landing weight (applicable only to SaudiArabian aircraft, 380,000 pounds), Vref 148.

Standard body L1011, max landing weight, no flaps/no slats, Vref 194.
Having done this only once, that was quite enough.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6807 times:

Usually, but not always, an aircraft in the heavy category will land faster on average than a smaller aircraft (ie 747 vs 737) at MLW, but the difference is small, usually within 10 kts. But its hard to tell the difference of 10kts and given the size of some aircraft their apparent speed is greatly reduced.

DISCLAIMER: I just based this on performance charts I've seen and is by no means a generalization or a hard rule.  duck 


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8989 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6804 times:


  • RJ70-119 kt
  • RJ85-124 kt
  • F70-126 kt
  • DC 9-10-127 kt
  • RJ100-127 kt
  • RJ115-127 kt
  • 717-200-130 kt
  • 737-500-130 kt
  • A319-100-131 kt
  • 737-200-131 kt
  • 737-300-133 kt
  • A320-200-134 kt
  • A340-200-134 kt
  • A330-200-135 kt
  • 707-320C-135 kt
  • A300-600R-136 kt
  • A330-300-136 kt
  • A340-300-136 kt
  • F100-136 kt
  • 727-200Adv-137 kt
  • DC 9-30-137 kt
  • A310-300-138 kt
  • A321-200-138 kt
  • A380-800-138 kt
  • 737-400-138 kt
  • 777-200-138 kt
  • Tu-154M-138 kt
  • A340-500-139 kt
  • 777-200ER-140 kt
  • MD-87-141 kt
  • 767-200-142 kt
  • A340-600-144 kt
  • Il-62M/MK-145 kt
  • MD-81-148 kt
  • 757-200-150 kt
  • DC 9-40-151 kt
  • Tu-204-200-151 kt
  • MD-82-153 kt
  • MD-83-153 kt
  • DC10-10-157 kt



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3496 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6761 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):
757-200-150 kt

This is at least 15 kts too high for the 752. Where did you get the data?



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6749 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):

While she's not flying, you forgot to include Concorde at 217 kt



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6749 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
This is at least 15 kts too high for the 752. Where did you get the data?

I also think your speeds for the MD80 series, and DC9's are around 15 kts to high, other than the DC9-10/15 versions which look pretty good.

[Edited 2007-04-06 15:42:35]


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8989 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
Where did you get the data?

"Civil Jet Aircraft Design" , ISBN: 978-0-340-74152-8.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

747 dpending on wieght has a final approach speed of 148-152kts....


121
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3496 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 7):
Where did you get the data?

"Civil Jet Aircraft Design" , ISBN: 978-0-340-74152-8.

Here are two more turned up by a quick web search:

http://www.757.org.uk/spec/spec4.html

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/pdf/historical/757f_perf.pdf

Note that they are consistent. At an MLW of 92.25t, Vref is 137 kt. (You need to subtract the 5 kt speed additive from the speeds given for the org.uk reference

At the more normal passenger MLW of 89.8t for the 752, Vref would reduce to 135 kt, hence my comment that 150 kt is 15 kt too high.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
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