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Finding A VORs Course And HDG.....?  
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

how can i use VORs? the only way i know to use them is for DME purposes, i want to stop using the gps and start doing it the old fashioned NAV way....i need a small description (big long black and white pages scare me away.....)


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8867 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Google VOR produced http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/vor-nav.htm

Would suggest any flight school could teach you in a ground based sim, which I would strongly recommend.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

ugh....black and white and long!! but danke shen  Smile


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2159 times:

Mir's Extremely Basic VOR Tutorial:

1) Tune station
2) Listen for proper morse code
3) Turn OBS to desired radial
4) Choose an intercept heading (if ATC doesn't assign one)
5) Wait for needle to center, then turn airplane to the heading that the OBS is set to
6) Make appropriate wind corrections so that the needle remains centered.

If looking to go direct, perform steps 1 and 2, then turn the OBS until the needle is centered with a TO flag, then continue with step 5.

It looks like you're looking for something to use in flight simulator, which is fine, but I would get a lot more information and instruction on this before you try to do the same thing in an actual airplane.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
3) Turn OBS to desired radial

do you choose any radial? how do you find the radial?



[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 4):
do you choose any radial? how do you find the radial?



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
If looking to go direct, perform steps 1 and 2, then turn the OBS until the needle is centered with a TO flag, then continue with step 5.

Mir had that one covered already.  Smile

If you don't want to fly direct to the VOR, but to the VOR on a particular course (e.g. along the airway the VOR is on), then select that course and fly the aircraft on an intercept heading until the needle starts to move to the centre, then turn onto the selected course and fly with the needle centered.

If your using a reasonably modern airliner in flightsim you won't find an OBI or OBS anywhere. Instead there will be an HSI (with a course pointer and course deviation bar) and also an RMI with pointers which show the bearing to the VOR on a compass card. There will be a CRS (course) selector which will move the course pointer on the HSI around. As with an OBI, the deviation bar will be centered when the course pointer is aligned with the VOR.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2047 times:

One can also play with Tim's Air Navigation Simulator to get the hang of of both VOR and NDB navigation. I used to use this java app when I taught navigation at the local community college aviation program. The simulator provides various displays including an HSI and RMI. Pretty slick app I thought! The link:

http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/



"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2029 times:

G4LASRamper :

RMI? RMI?? RMI???

If you don't fly fixed-card and do the math in your head, you are a big cheater.

Neener, neener, neener.


User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Yes, RMI. And slaved ADF cards too when I could afford it. None of that crank the card to match the heading stuff for me. Heck, it was hard enough for me to hold a heading long enough to set the card. Math was always my worstest subject. Anything that reduced the need for cypherin' on the flight deck was greatly appreciated.


"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 7):
G4LASRamper :

RMI? RMI?? RMI???

If you don't fly fixed-card and do the math in your head, you are a big cheater.

Neener, neener, neener.

I was taught to mentally superimpose the ADF needle onto the DG...works for me  Wink However, I fear in a couple of years, this will be obsolete knowledge anyways...too bad  Sad I'll take an NDB approach over a localizer back course anyday...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
I was taught to mentally superimpose the ADF needle onto the DG...works for me

Same here. Only problem is that it works great in the plane but is absolutely useless for figuring out word problems in ground school. Then I have to dust off the math.  crazy 

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
I'll take an NDB approach over a localizer back course anyday...

Surely you can't be serious!  confused 

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1910 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
I'll take an NDB approach over a localizer back course anyday...

Surely you can't be serious! confused

-Mir

For me, the mental gymnastics needed to successfully execute an NDB approach are far less taxing than those needed to deal with a reverse sensing needle  Wink I got plenty of practice with that, too, as the missed approach procedure for the ILS I shot the most of while getting my instrument ticket had you fly the localizer (now reverse-sensing because you're going the "wrong" way) back to the LOM and enter a hold there...and my instructor wouldn't let me flip the "B/C" switch on the OBS head that reverses reverse sensing  Smile



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
my instructor wouldn't let me flip the "B/C" switch on the OBS head that reverses reverse sensing

What was that instructor thinking??  Big grin

I'd much rather deal with the reverse sensing of a back course than the floating wandering needle known as an NDB approach.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2272 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter):
i want to stop using the gps and start doing it the old fashioned NAV way

Wow I feel old and im only 21. All my training was all VOR (heck when I started in the J3, it was take the PA Turnpike map and look for the road on the map hehe).

NDB's, now THATS Old  Smile

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1861 times:

"NDB's, now THATS Old"

You're making me feel REALLY old. In 1960, I filed and flew what was, possibly, the last 4-course range airway left in the US, Red 10. It was a very interesting experience but I wouldn't want to fly an approach using a range station unless I had Ernie Gann in the right seat.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
I'll take an NDB approach over a localizer back course anyday...

I'd avoid both and just do a GPS overlay, or:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
I'd much rather deal with the reverse sensing of a back course than the floating wandering needle known as an NDB approach.

With an HSI it wouldnt even matter....

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 14):
I filed and flew what was, possibly, the last 4-course range airway left in the US, Red 10.

Wasn't the 4 course range first developed around the Paleolithic era? Big grin  duck 

In all honesty, considering the simplicity of the system and the technology back then, it was quite a leap.

Yea yea, I know what you old school pilots are thinking. Us noobies are spoiled with all the sweet new gadgets 

Speaking of which, I have my multi instrument check coming up soon.   

[Edited 2007-04-18 08:21:04]

User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1780 times:

"Wasn't the 4 course range first developed around the Paleolithic era?
In all honesty, considering the simplicity of the system and the technology back then, it was quite a leap"

Fly an Average Bisector Orientation for me before you say "simplicity," pilgrim.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 16):
Fly an Average Bisector Orientation for me before you say "simplicity," pilgrim.

Fly a what now?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 15):
Speaking of which, I have my multi instrument check coming up soon.

Good luck on that!



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1726 times:

It's an A... No, it's a N... No, it's a Z... No it's a... Repeat until oriented or declaring minimum fuel.


"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):

Good luck on that!

Thanks. Just had the oral part tonight and I passed  Smile

I have the flight for friday, which I'm not as worried about as for the oral.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 20):
Thanks. Just had the oral part tonight and I passed Smile

I have the flight for friday, which I'm not as worried about as for the oral.

Congrats on passing the oral...

What does the flight test entail? A single-engined instrument approach?

I'm guessing your test will be in the Seminole...IIRC, the Seminole doesn't lose any systems (it's fully redundant electrically and vacuum-wise) when an engine goes kaput.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 15):
With an HSI it wouldnt even matter

When I was flying NDB's the plane was lucky to have seats much less an HSI!  Smile

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 20):
Just had the oral part tonight and I passed

Yeah congrats on the passing of the exam! Best on the checkride.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 14):
a range station unless I had Ernie Gann in the right seat.

Who using what? You might as well be speaking French.  Smile

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
What does the flight test entail? A single-engined instrument approach?

It always seemed wierd to me. For the multi-engine instrument checkride you end up shooting an approach with one engine inop. I keep on thinking "If I already have my single engine rating, why am I shooting approaches on one engine to get my multi rating?"  confused 


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
What does the flight test entail? A single-engined instrument approach?

I'm guessing your test will be in the Seminole...IIRC, the Seminole doesn't lose any systems (it's fully redundant electrically and vacuum-wise) when an engine goes kaput.

Precision apps, non-prec (GPS or VOR out here, no actual NDB thank god!) Single engine approaches and partial panel approaches, holds, and arcs, yeah, the whole deal Big grin

And you're guessing correctly, but the examiner will probably pull the breaker for the HSI to simulate a failure. Upon which I shall begin swearing hehe. We got dual Garmin 430s on them and an MX20, gotta love those things.  yes 

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 22):
When I was flying NDB's the plane was lucky to have seats much less an HSI!

ROFL  rotfl 

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 22):
Yeah congrats on the passing of the exam! Best on the checkride.

Thanks! Got the flight scheduled for tomorrow 4/20 in the afternoon. Git r' dun! Big grin


User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

Yes, good luck to you on that! I'm sure you'll do well, since you've already got the oral out of the way.

When I took mine I didn't have a multi rating yet, so took it in a Warrior. At that time I didn't have to demonstrate any instrument ride items when I took the multi the following year. Of course I did have to do it all again when I took the ATP rides, multi and single.

Have a good ride!



"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
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