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767 Fuselage And Cargo Hold  
User currently offlineCrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

Hello all,

can someone tell me,
a)why the 767 came out with a smaller fuselage diameter than other widebody aircrafts so that new containers (LD-2) were needed, too

and
b)why only the last container in a row (left or right hand side) can be secured instead of every single container at every single postition. (This does not apply to DL763s N154/5/6 or N1501P). We speak of DL 763s here.

Thanks for your answers,
CC32

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

"a)why the 767 came out with a smaller fuselage diameter than other widebody aircrafts so that new containers (LD-2) were needed, too"

I am not exactly 100% sure, but I have a very strong feeling it was about aerodynamics. The 767, because it is narrower, is actually more aerodynamically efficient than it's competitor A300/310/330.

I can't answer your last quetion.

Hope that helps,
-Tom



User currently offlineRatzz From Sweden, joined Sep 1999, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

As for your first question:.....duh...dunno..:=)

As for your second question then:

-LD2´s are used by a wide variety of 767 operators...as to why I dunno..since an LD8 fills the same purpose..so it has to do with transfer bags,or first,business and"monkey class"bags..
The 767´s I´ve been in charge of loading/unloading as a CrewChief here at ARN has presented a wide variety of ULD´s such as:LD2´s,LD3´s,LD8´s and an occational LD4....
When it comes down to locks,all 767´s I´ve seen have separate locks for all pos.in both fwd&aft holds.(incl.the DL 76´s I´ve seen)
Locks in aft hold presents the following pos:
31,32,33,34,41,42(door pos)&43.
In front:
11,12,13&14(door pos.)21,22,23
A difference is the fact that in the fwd hold,ULD´s can be loaded into all pos,except 21,22,23 wich all are pallet positions..although lock config also allowes pallets in 11,12,13&14..
If pallets are loaded therein,pos.will be noted on the loadsheet as 11P&13P..
Some 767´s also have an LD2 container in cpt 5 used as a waste container...wich is a real pain in the a** to remove&replace....
Today here at ARN only DL uses the LD2´s in their 767´s..AA uses DQF ULD´s(unlockable LD8),BA uses the LD3´s&LD4´s...,BLX(Britannia Airways)uses LD8´s...
To avoid any missunderstandings a DQF ULD can be locked sideways,but not upwards since it´s bottom is slightly smaller than a regular LD8,thus allowing it to pass between the cargo restraining rails on each side,whilst a regular LD8 fits nicely undernieth them.

Sure hope that this shedded some light as to your question....mail me if you´ve got comments or more questions...


User currently offlineFedExIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

What is the difference between an LD2 and and LD3 container? I know one is probably smaller, but the 767 can take both kinds? I'm interested in knowing more. At FedEx, we have LD3 containers that go into the bellies of the A300/310, DC10/MD11. The MD11 A300 and A310 can take 88 or 96 inch pallets in the forward bellies and they are locked down individually. The DC10 can only take 88 inch pallets in the fwd hold and only the end position is locked and they aren't vertical locks. Also, the LD3s in the DC10, FWD and AFT aren't locked individually. The say the floor of the maindeck is strong enough on the DC10 so there is no need for vertical restraint.

User currently offlineCrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

FedExIndy,

LD-3 containers are a little bit larger than LD-2 containers (=more floor space and more volume).
When you load an A300 or A310 (or any other widebody aircraft), you have a right hand side position and a left hand side position for these containers, e.g. 31L, 32L, 31R, 32R etc.....
It is the same for a 767 with LD-2 containers,
BUT when you load an LD-3 container into a 767 lower hold, that container has to be placed onto the "LEFT" positions and the side with the slope (the "overhang")faces towards the "RIGHT" side (where your cargo door is)so that the weight is more or less equally distributed.
All 767s I know have built-in additional guidance locks just for that purpose, and these guidance locks (probably the wrong term!?) have to be set upright before loading.
And because of the size of these LD-3s, you cannot load two of them next to each other (left and right simultaneously), only one after the other in a row.
The 763 can accomodate 4 pallets in the forward hold, each one is locked individually, and for the smaller 88inch pallets (PAC-pallets) a built-in guidance rail has to be placed upright before loading. These pallets have to be loaded in the long run, similar to DHL´s Convair 580s.
BTW, two LD-2s fit next to each other into the A300/310/DC-10....when you load them with the slope towards the centerline!!!
I hope I could answer your question, at least partially....

Ratzz,

thank you very much for your answer.
I handle DL 763s, DE 763s and did handle Britannia (Germany) 763s, and I noticed, especially at DL`s 763s, newer ones, that when you start loading at Position 31L&R (DL has only numbers, 1 - 16 forward, 17 - 30 aft, but NOT Left and Right) and when you lock these containers immediately, the next position(32L&R) cannot be locked anymore and the next one (33L&R) also not.....
On the other hand, if you have a completely empty aft hold (for example), and you want to place a container onto let`s say 33R, the locks will prevent that container from moving towards the REAR, but NOT towards the front!!!!!!
So you always must begin loading at position 31..... Now I would like to know WHY it has been designed that way????
If you look into an A300/310, etc...
they have locks that look like a "T" when placed upright, and they prevent every container individually from moving into any direction.
BTW, you can load LD-2s onto any given position, there are no "pallet only" positions, at least not with DL.

Sorry for my awful English,
CC32


User currently offlineRatzz From Sweden, joined Sep 1999, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Well CC32;

Agree with you on the fact that them locks in either hold btw.pos.is kinda awkward in their design,as to why you always have to load let´s say one ULD as in your example in an otherwise empty rear hold,starting from pos.31 instead of let´s say,33...I dunno...but it has to do with weight&balance...

Also I´ve noticed that type/design of locks differ alot btw.a/c´s&airline,age&type of 767...

Doorpos.locks look the same,as do them pallet locks and rollout stops...but locks btw.pos especially in aft hold differs.
On BA´s 76´ers we couldn´t lock ULD´s individually in pos.,but on BLX´s(Britannia´s) a/c´s we lock each LD8 individually btw.pos.
Correct me if I´m wrong here,but the width(depth) of the LD8 is slightly smaller than an LD3 f.x...hence why they can be locked individually....

I also stand corrected in the fact that there are no "pallet only"pos...it´s just that I haven´t under my ten years of beeing a ramp rat,loaded anything else than pallets in pos.21,22&23.....LD´s in all other pos.,but never there...only pallets.



User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 6, posted (12 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

According to Boeing they have designed their wide-body double-lobed fuselages around the cargo containers that they would carry on the main and lower decks. The 767 was designed around a longitudinally loaded AMA container on main deck and a full-width LD-8 or 2 side-by side LD-2's. This criteria basically determined the fuselage cross-section of 767 as it did on 747 which was designed to hold two longitudinally loaded AMA containers side-by-side on main deck and a full-width LD-11 or two LD-1's side-by-side.

Hope this helps

widebodyphotog



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