Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Block Time Question  
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please? I've seen it mentioned here a bit and am certainly interested to know what it is.
Many thanks for any help.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please?

Follow this sequence...

(A) The flight pushes back from the gate (and leaves the wheel chocks/blocks) and taxies to the runway.

(B) The flight starts takeoff and gets airborne.

(C) The flight touches down on landing.

(D) The flight taxies off the runway to into the gate, slows, stops, and the chocks/blocks are put back.

B-C is flight time...

A-D is block time, the total time from one set of chocks/blocks tothe other...


User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

If WN and other LCC talk about a '15-min turnaround' (or any very quick turnaround), is that then the time from D to A or from C to B?

Thanks


User currently offlineA330Fan From Ireland, joined Aug 2005, 207 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 2):

Yeah turnaround time is as you put it, D - A, arriving at the gate, engines off, passengers and baggage off and reloading/refueling until the aircraft is pushed back again...



We need a place to kick it. Don't be selfish, Anton! No one else's parents are dead!
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2131 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

The "15-min turnaround" would be D to A.

For ACARS the ABCD is termed OOOI (Out of the gate, Off the ground, On the ground, In the gate)



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me what exactly Block Time is please?

Mind if I get a little boring...uh, more detailed?

Yes, block time is from block out at point A to block in at point B.

But why do two different airlines flying from point A to point B have different block times? How does Southwest do it with those 20 minutes (more like 25-35) turn arounds?

When an airline schedules their flights, they use historical block times (if an added flight on a previously-flown route) or they calculate expected block time. The airline decides what kind of on-time performance they want (a balance of competitive factors, time-of-day constraints, connecting possibilities, etc..).

They decide if they want the flight to be 55% on time (meaning it will operate the segment within the allotted block time or less at least 55% of the time), or 60% on time, or 65%...so on.

If the flight is one that connects at a hub, they may use 70% block time. If the flight is one they would like to connect at a hub, but would definitely be "last in", they may use 50% block time - that way it will show as a connection and sell in reservations systems, and most of the time people will, in fact, be able to connect.

Southwest is primarily point-to-point. Although they do connect a lot of passengers, many of their segments are not connecting to anything else. Plus, they have short turn-arounds. So they have to have a pretty good on-time performance or their operation falls apart. So they (probably, I don't know for sure) schedule at a higher percentage block time - say 70%? 70% of their flights operated to scheduled block or less...meaning the turnaround time just had a couple of minutes here and there thrown in.

Why don't airlines all schedule to 100% block time? $$$. Look at how (mostly) pilots are paid...scheduled block time or actual, whichever is greater. So if your 100% block time means 100% of your flights operate to schedule or less, you're paying too much.

HEY!!! Wake up! I'm done...


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Not sure which context the OP was meaning this in,

but over in GA land, it can also mean, for example, 50 hours in a Piper Seminole pre-purchased at an agreed upon price  Smile

 twocents 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
The flight pushes back from the gate (and leaves the wheel chocks/blocks) and taxies to the runway.

Block time:- Time taken from the time Aircraft is chocked off before taxying on its own power for purpose of flight to chocks on at the end of the flight.

Chocks off prior to Pushback on some Aircraft that cannot start engines during pushback.Need the chocks to be placed again during Engine start.Those chocks are withdrawn only after starting Engines & taxying on its own power.


regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 5):
Mind if I get a little more detailed?

(excuse me for being European and not knowing about WN's operations  Smile)

So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 8):

So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?

Depends on the service level (ie percentage of flights that arrives within the blocktime), if that is higher then 50%, then yes, the average possible turnaround time is longer then that.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2647 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 8):
So most of WN's turnaround times are actually more than the infamous 15-20minutes?

The scheduled times vary by airport, and probably time of day (can someone confirm?). You can get a good idea by looking through their online timetable at intermediate legs on the same flight.

The actual times are, like for any airline, not always within the scheduled times, but sometimes faster, especially when inbound is late.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Block time & Time in Air is a difference of 10 mins on average.

regds
MEL

[Edited 2007-05-15 08:39:27]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Block time & Time in Air is a difference of 10 mins on average.

Huh? Where? For which airline?

Not at JFK...or LGA...or ATL...or EWR...or ORD...or LAX...or LHR...on and on and on...maybe ABE!


User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2684 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2556 times:

With my current employer, blocks off time is linked to the release of the parking brake via ACARS. One of the tricks to ensure an "on time" departure is to kick off the brakes at the scheduled departure time. Despite this, the aircraft may well be sitting on the bay for another 5-10 minutes  Wink !

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 12):
Huh? Where? For which airline

Out here its official to calculate the Block time as Time in Air + 10 minutes if the data is not present for record purposes.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2345 times:

What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?
(The time between chocks placed and removed, the D-A time as mentioned above)


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 15):
What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?
(The time between chocks placed and removed, the D-A time as mentioned above)

Block time:- Chocks on to chocks off.
Time in Air:- Take off to Touch Down.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Oh, but i found that block time =
"The period from the moment the chocks are withdrawn and brakes released, or moorings dropped, to the return to rest or take-up of moorings after the flight." So it's Time in Air + taxi? Or is this definition incorrect?

Thanks for the info!


User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Need the chocks to be placed again during Engine start

That's a local procedure. We push and start engines all the time without chocks in place.

ACARS, at my operator, registers block out when:
All doors are closed
Any engine oil pressure valid (some aircraft)
Brakes released
Aircraft moving as sensed through the INS/IRS.

Block off: when the aircraft systems transition to air mode
Block on: when the aircraft systems transition to ground mode

Block in:
Aircraft on ground
Any door opened

We define total block time from block out to block in.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 18):
We push and start engines all the time without chocks in place.

With a Mx personnell at the Headset on Flt Interphone.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 15):
What is the correct name actually for the "not-block time"? is it "turn-around time"?

"turn time".

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
but over in GA land, it can also mean, for example, 50 hours in a Piper Seminole pre-purchased at an agreed upon price

That would be "a block of time".



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
With a Mx personnell at the Headset on Flt Interphone.

Yes. Once the aircraft is pushed back, the chocks only go back in for some extraordinary reason.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 21):
Yes. Once the aircraft is pushed back, the chocks only go back in for some extraordinary reason

Out here that a Safety violation.
Any time a Mx personnell is present near the Aircraft.Chocks near the Nose wheels is a must,in case the brakes are released.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Block Time Question
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Equi Time Point (ETP) Settings On FMS Question posted Sun May 21 2006 13:27:50 by JulianUK
Yet Another Powerback Question This Time TWA posted Tue Jan 2 2001 16:34:37 by Wilcharl
H.S.C.T. Weight Question posted Mon May 7 2007 05:59:57 by Blackbird
A340 Question posted Sat May 5 2007 19:05:10 by FlyTUITravel
Question About Airbus FMS posted Thu May 3 2007 14:20:41 by ArniePie
Nozzle's Question For A Supersonic posted Mon Apr 30 2007 09:31:59 by Detroitflyer
Question For Pilots Regarding Analog Cockpits posted Sat Apr 28 2007 14:27:24 by Trentin
Convair 880 Cruise Mach, VMO/MMO Question posted Wed Apr 25 2007 22:01:03 by Blackbird
Piper Vagabond/Colt Question posted Tue Apr 24 2007 05:44:36 by 2H4
Question About Air Canada Flight (AC864) posted Thu Apr 12 2007 21:40:59 by MarkChief

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format