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Planes With Skirts!?  
User currently offlineDHHornet From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

I am sure I have seen picture years ago a DHC-4 or 5? with a hovercraft type skirt.

Could this be the future replacement for wheels/skis/floats?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

I remember a Popular Science article from the late 70's/early 80's, which featured pictures (artists' renditions) of 727's and DC-9's with hovercraft skirts, proclaiming this to be the future at airports near the water like SAN and SFO... or, at least, that someone had proposed the idea...IIRC, they were arguing that adding a hovercraft skirt to allow water landings really didn't add thta much weight especially when the landing gear was eliminated...I'd love to see a good crosswind landing with no friction from the tires personally

EDIT: clarified that the "pictures" in the article weren't actual photographs before someone called me on it

EDIT: I kan spell, reelly... Big grin

[Edited 2007-05-30 21:11:17]

[Edited 2007-05-30 21:13:02]


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineChksix From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 345 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

Let's see the conveyor belt stop that plane  duck 


The conveyor belt plane will fly
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Quoting Chksix (Reply 2):
Let's see the conveyor belt stop that plane duck

Oooooooooh. 2 minutes in the penalty box for that one. Big grin

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
EDIT: clarified that the "pictures" in the article weren't actual photographs before someone called me on it

Yes well it is "Popular Science", also known as "nice graphics, shame about the physics."



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4485 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



The system was known as the ACLS, or Air Cushion Landing System, and it was used on a military variant of the deHavilland DHC-5 Buffalo. I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:






2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
...I'd love to see a good crosswind landing with no friction from the tires personally

Ya me too. And I'd like to see how they would eliminate the bouncing problem Big grin


User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4423 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

XC8A, it was a joint Bell and Boeing attempt, with participation of US and Canadian militaries.
See Serial Number 5 in the following link
http://www.dhc4and5.org/BuffaloRev3.pdf
Still flying as CC115451 in the Canadian Forces at 442 Transport and Rescue Sqn, Comox, BC

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:

I can't believe you have pics of this plane period.

Did you sell your soul for all the random, unknown, never-before-seen aviation pics in the world? Seems every topic no matter how far fetched you have a pic. I'm sure I could ask for a DC-6, painted pink, with a RAT installed, with winglets and you would have a pic uploaded within a day.


Anyways, on topic...

From the pics it looks alot like a simple raft has been inflated under the airplane, although I'm sure it was more than this...I hope. Did this raft deflate in flight or what?


User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4342 times:
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Another "all terrain" landing gear design was the *tracked* (yes, like on a tank) landing gear tried on a B-36.


http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...ets/factsheet.asp?fsID=2585&page=5


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these:

Penalty box for you too! Dissapointed!!! Big grin

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):

From the pics it looks alot like a simple raft has been inflated under the airplane, although I'm sure it was more than this...I hope. Did this raft deflate in flight or what?

IIRC it did yes.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4278 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 6):
XC8A

Ah yes....thanks.

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
I can't believe you have pics of this plane period.

What I meant was, I could have sworn I had some nicer shots, showing more of a side view. I'll keep looking....

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
Did you sell your soul for all the random, unknown, never-before-seen aviation pics in the world?

Nope, I've just spent many, many hours practicing for flight team, and run across a lot of interesting things while cleaning up the database.  Wink

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 7):
I'm sure I could ask for a DC-6, painted pink, with a RAT installed, with winglets and you would have a pic uploaded within a day.

Now you're just being silly. The pink RAT winglet conversion was only approved for DC-7s.

Quoting Rwessel (Reply 8):
Another "all terrain" landing gear design was the *tracked* (yes, like on a tank) landing gear tried on a B-36.

This one had tracks, too....but I'm not sure whether it has actually flown in this configuration:



Gotta love Oshkosh...

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Penalty box for you too! Dissapointed!!!

 boxedin 


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21504 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
2 minutes in the penalty box for that one.

2 measly minutes? Bringing up conveyor belts outside of one particular thread is a five minute major as far as I'm concerned.  Smile

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
2 measly minutes? Bringing up conveyor belts outside of one particular thread is a five minute major as far as I'm concerned.

Hehe. I moved from Sweden a few years ago so the rules of hockey are not quite as fresh in my mind as they should be. Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4226 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Here's another tidbit. The Bell LA-4 ACLS test aircraft was a modified Lake LA-4 amphibian that used a separate 90hp motor to inflate the landing cushion. Later tests experimented with the introduction of suction to the landing cushion as a method of slowing on the ground and decreasing landing distances.



2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDHHornet From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
The system was known as the ACLS, or Air Cushion Landing System, and it was used on a military variant of the deHavilland DHC-5 Buffalo. I believe it was designated the XC-5A.

I can't believe I don't have any better pics than these

Well done 2H4    . I was thinking it was all from a dream!

Still a great Idea.

http://www.combatreform2.com/c130.htm

A pant wetting site with nice pictures and drawings. I like the Herc !

[Edited 2007-05-31 12:55:29]

User currently offlineN215AZ From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3964 times:

2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

 airplane 

N215AZ



"Atra esterní ono thelduin, Mor'ranr lífa unin hjarta onr, Un du evarínya ono varda."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3960 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting N215AZ (Reply 15):
2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

It's getting to be that time, isn't it?

I've been debating how best to run the next quiz. I'm thinking, instead of posting new shots at random times, when certain folks may be at work or asleep, I could post a new shot every two/three days, at a time that works for the majority of us. Suggestions?

I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

Finally, I'll need to figure out what prizes will be offered. Most of my belongings are currently in storage, so I may ask for volunteers to donate obscure aviation artifacts to be used as prizes.

What do you guys think?


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

I think that is best. That way there is no time zone unfairness involved and such.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Were there any Scottish aircraft manufacturers?

If so, and you applied a hovercraft "Skirt" to them, I'd imagine the Scots would paint it plaid and call it a "Kilt"  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
Quoting N215AZ (Reply 15):
2H4, i do believe it is time for another raving round of, "Name That Airplane!"

It's getting to be that time, isn't it?

 bouncy 

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
I also think it might be better for everyone to submit guesses via private message directly to me, rather than posting guesses in the thread for everyone to see. That way, you never know who might have already guessed it, or what the general train of thought is. Nobody would know who guessed it first/correctly until the answer is unveiled. Agree/disagree?

Well, yes and no. Better for those submitting guesses but not so interesting for the rest of us. I suppose a daily summary of what guesses have been made might be OK.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
Were there any Scottish aircraft manufacturers?

Um... Scottish Aviation.  Smile

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
I'd imagine the Scots would paint it plaid

Except we'd paint it "tartan"... but only for weddings and soccer/rugby matches.  Smile


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Reply 4, posted Wed May 30 2007

The props on the bottom picture look stationary - I'd assume that those would at least be windmilling if the plane was in motion. Are the engines supposed to be cut prior to "touchdown" or was this an early version of "photoshopping"?



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
The props on the bottom picture look stationary - I'd assume that those would at least be windmilling if the plane was in motion. Are the engines supposed to be cut prior to "touchdown" or was this an early version of "photoshopping"?

High shutter speed? Big grin

Seriously, it would have to be viciously high. Perhaps they were trying engine out landings.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3799 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
The props on the bottom picture look stationary

Not to me. It looks like there's some blur at the tips.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Seriously, it would have to be viciously high. Perhaps they were trying engine out landings.

I'll defer to an expert for specifics, but I believe propeller RPM at idle is likely only about 800 to 1000 RPM.


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3786 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 22):
I'll defer to an expert for specifics, but I believe propeller RPM at idle is likely only about 800 to 1000 RPM.

In 1/1000 sec, not an uncommon shutter speed, a 10 ft propeller rotating at 1,000 RPM would move about 1 ft, or about 10% of its radius, at the tip. Note that the propeller blades pointing more or less vertically up appear squeezed and the ones near vertically down look to be stretched, a distortion effect caused by horizontal shutter curtains. The bottom blades are moving in the same direction as the shutter, the top blades in the opposite direction.

Since an air cushion takes time to pressurise and this can only happen within inches of the ground, vertical speed at touchdown must have had to be quite small. The skirt itself wouldn't bear much weight.

As for Scottish hovercraft having kilts, I wouldn't recommend telling a Scot that the kilt he is wearing is really a skirt.  box   fight 



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
Finally, I'll need to figure out what prizes will be offered. Most of my belongings are currently in storage, so I may ask for volunteers to donate obscure aviation artifacts to be used as prizes.

Absolutely. I have been trying to clean out the basement in preparation for an upcoming move. I found books down there I forgot I had. They need to go to a good home. From coffee table books to old AFMs. I am still looking, but I think I have a few FlightSafety cockpit posters as well.



Proud OOTSK member
25 Post contains images Futurecaptain : I'm thinking its time to play "stump 2H4" We all will post requests for aircraft photos and see when we stumble upon some obscure plane you don't hav
26 N215AZ : I think you need to offer a first class membership to the winner. N215AZ
27 Post contains images 2H4 : That would be fun, but I'm easy to stump. Anything built prior to WWII, for example, is way beyond me. Heck, planes with rafts on their bellies aren'
28 Starlionblue : Errr. Well I am the opposite of a hoarder so I have no trinkets... In cases like this it's kind of a mixed blessing.
29 Post contains images N231YE : I am sure that 95% of Airliners.net users could make good use of that thing... A 2-liter soda bottle filled with 100LL? Joking aside, I do think its
30 ATCT : Yea Im trying to rack my brain for any crap that I have. Nope cant think of any, but I agree with my EAA brethren 231YE that its time for another thre
31 Post contains images N231YE : The one from April 2007 (Vol. 56, No. 4) with the "EAA Young Eagles Program Turns 15" on the front? I had the chance to fly it in AirVenture 2005; it
32 N215AZ : I am still trying to talk my parents into letting me fly into there. So I can experience all the fun and excitement. If you hear someone with a New Y
33 Post contains links DEVILFISH : Found a good illustration of the "phenomenon"..... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...opter-appears-to-defy-gravity.html .....and a thread starte
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