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How Much More Does It Cost To Containerize An A320  
User currently offlineB6ramprat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

How much to change the belly of the plane and get the equipment for it. I bring it up because doing the JFK-SJU, SDQ, STI , BDQ routes out of JFK. I wish we had containers instead of having to free pack it. The bags are insanely heavy especially going down to D.R


Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Well, I never knew A320's were built that could only be bulk loaded, learn something every day.

Obviously lower weights which may equal additional range (?)

It could be worse, you could be in the Middle East where everyone checks in 5 massive suitcases and 10 huge boxes  Smile



One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineB6ramprat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

[quote=CV580Freak,reply=1]Well, I never knew A320's were built that could only be bulk loaded, learn something every day.[/quote

I flew on an Air France A320 where they used containers.



Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6167 times:

There are several airlines which use the containers.............  Smile, however you need a "K" loader which is usually not a problem with primary airports, have seen only a few secondary airports with the loaders...... these loaders are not cheap compare to a simple belt loader.
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load.

Cheers,


User currently offlineRdwelch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 1):
It could be worse, you could be in the Middle East where everyone checks in 5 massive suitcases and 10 huge boxes

Remember, people don't travel anymore, they move in..

Gus.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8870 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

Quoting B6ramprat (Thread starter):
How much to change the belly of the plane and get the equipment for it.

I think all the aircraft come standard suitable for container loading, some low cost airlines are using containers to reduce the number or people, and the time required to turn an aircraft about by using containers.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineB6ramprat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

Quoting Swissy (Reply 3):
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load

I have a new found respect for those who have to load md 80's and 90's and all other in there catogory after we got the E 190's. Its like packing in a coffin.



Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

BA's 320s & 321s are all containerised. The 319s are equipped, but not currently used; however the 319 fleet will soon be all containerised in preparation for the move to T5 @ LHR.


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlinePanman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

Having had to do the mods in the hangar to convert from bulk loading to contanerized and vice versa, I would say that it does not cost much in parts or manhours (takes a few hours - can be do in one shift) - well in the aviation world that is (everything is expensive). I wouldn't be able to do it from my personal bank account.

User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 6):
I have a new found respect for those who have to load md 80's and 90's and all other in there catogory after we got the E 190's. Its like packing in a coffin.

Include the F100............ Big grin, yup everything is tuned for pax comfort, what about the rampies??

Quoting Panman (Reply 8):
Having had to do the mods in the hangar to convert from bulk loading to contanerized and vice versa, I would say that it does not cost much in parts or manhours (takes a few hours - can be do in one shift)

Agree the cost is not "much" but the ground equipment is the main reason for many airlines not to use these cans.... or just use them on primary airports. Feels good driving a loader on to a 320..... Big grin

Cheers,


User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5778 times:

How much is the cost difference for ground handlers actually for ULD's vs bulk? It seems that they are much cheaper, if you consider the loading/unloading steps needed..

It always surprised me that the A319 could handle ULD's and the 738 etc not... but once you've seen the interior of the hold you get to see why  Smile

IIRC most of the charters don't use ULD's neither... Which are pain in the asses for the loaders as those tourists know how to pack.


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting Swissy (Reply 9):
Include the F100............ , yup everything is tuned for pax comfort, what about the rampies??

Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

LH uses the containers on the 320 and 321, but the 319 is loose cargo / baggage only.
To some airports LH can't operate the 320/321 due to the lack of loading/unloading equipment.
VNO is an example for this, and will only be served by 733/735 or 319.
For cargo the use of the containers gives you more flexibility as you can load heavier pcs without having problems for the rampies. Max gross weight on the AKH's with LH is 1134kgs.



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineB6ramprat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 11):
Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!

In our E190 bellies, the fire supression system is protected by a grate that comes down off the ceiling. Now why couldn't it be flush with the ceiling. Now you have to wear bump caps if you want so you don't hurt your head. Leather sofas and beer taps I don't need. what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.



Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
User currently offlineMayhem From Belgium, joined Feb 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5607 times:

Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
Quoting Lemurs (Reply 11):
Last I checked, rampers are still a cost center instead of a profit center. When they start making the airlines money by crawling around down there, you can be sure there will be leather sofas and beer taps installed. Until then, coffins away!



Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.

Yep, and better designs = faster workers, less injured workers = less costs, you increase profit by increasing your revenues or decreasing your costs...

For cargo the containerized aircraft also have the possibility to load those "pallets", so that saves quite some time too...


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

Quoting Swissy (Reply 3):
Have worked on both and yes it is a lot nicer with the cans and I prefer the 320 over any 737 if I had to free load.



Same with the cockpit: I will always take the A-320 (spacious and ergonomic) versus the 737 (cramped, noisy, and no room for my bag), unfortunately our fleet planners didn't see it that way.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

The containers depending on the numbers would add weight.On our B737 & B757 Freighters.We have opted out of using containers in the Maindeck & opted for Pallets with Lashing as the Savings in weight per pallet was approx 170kgs.Added up that would be a huge weight penalty.
The Bulk containers would def be lighter but a weight penalty never the less.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZenarcade From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

I'm assuming you can fit in a heck of a lot more luggage by packing it in loose rather than in containers?

How much (if any) turn around time is saved by using containers?



If a plane falls on the tarmac and no one is there, does it make any sound? - Starlionblue
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5359 times:





Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 17):
How much (if any) turn around time is saved by using containers

If time consumed for loading is taken into account.There is a def time saving as retrival & loading of containers is faster.The drawback is added weight.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJoePatroni From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

AC has containerized A320 and A321 but the A319s are bulk loaded. I have to say though, there are quite a few more safety procedures to follow with those containerized flights. I can't tell you how many dents and punctures AC gets on their A320s. Putting a loader meant for a wide body up to an A320 means your working in pretty cramped space and therefore dents and dings happen all the time. In fact AC installed this reflective tape on the flap covers to make them more visible to the loader operator.

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Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 13):
In our E190 bellies, the fire supression system is protected by a grate that comes down off the ceiling. Now why couldn't it be flush with the ceiling. Now you have to wear bump caps if you want so you don't hurt your head. Leather sofas and beer taps I don't need. what i do need is better design of and airplane for us to move around in.

Totally agreed! Those E190 pits are the WORST. Talk about back pain and head injuries!!!
But hey, at least they're darn comfortable to sit in and watch a movie. Right?!?



Oh Stewardess, I speak Jive.
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