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Lets Praise The DC-10  
User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

I am surely not qualified to post here, but was wondering...with all of the negative press the DC-10 had received in its lifetime, what were its technical and operational merits?

Large cockpit windows?
Cargo capacity?

Any pilots/mechanics weigh in?


I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3702 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3646 times:
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A very reliable airframe & systems.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

It simple: DC-10s, just like many other Douglas aircraft starting with the DC-3/C-47 were built to last.

User currently offlineCdekoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

DC-10 avionics were very advanced for their time: CATIII Dual Autoland, FMS, fuel management etc.
Much less workload for the FE compared to the B747 classic.

I loved them 'cause they were dependable work horses that were relatively easy to maintain and operate.



We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

Quoting Cdekoe (Reply 3):
Much less workload for the FE compared to the B747 classic.

Was the work load was about 1/4 less, I wonder why?


User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quoting Cdekoe (Reply 3):
I loved them 'cause they were dependable work horses that were relatively easy to maintain and operate.

HEY HEY HEY

Let's not set up the headstones just yet. There's still a couple hundred running around loose and FEDEX's MD mod with the 717 avionics suite should ensure they're around as long as the DC-8 has been. . .
 Smile



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4751 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Well, it eventually turned into a reliable aircraft.

But only after racking up the worst safety record of any widebody aircraft.

Until the MD 11 came along !



Despite it's complexity the L1011 was and is a far superior aircraft.

The Tristar NEVER HAD A DESIGN CAUSED ACCIDENT.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting Mlsrar (Thread starter):
Large cockpit windows?

Also passenger windows. If not mistaken, the DC-10 (and MD-11) windows are larger than those on any other current widebodies. That was one reason I always liked flying on both types. Helped make the cabin seem even more spacious and roomy than it was. Like the DC-8 and DC-9, Douglas built them to last.


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
Despite it's complexity the L1011 was and is a far superior aircraft.

The Tristar NEVER HAD A DESIGN CAUSED ACCIDENT.

Quite true.

L1011.
A superb design...very VERY redundant systems.
Built in at the factory...not added on later.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3736 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Well, it the first plane I ever flew on, and thank to my mother being a loyal AA flyer in the 80's and early 90's, I flew on more DC 10 than any other jet as a child. It was cool flying on the second biggest jetliner in the world, at that time.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
Also passenger windows. If not mistaken, the DC-10 (and MD-11) windows are larger than those on any other current widebodies. That was one reason I always liked flying on both types. Helped make the cabin seem even more spacious and roomy than it was. Like the DC-8 and DC-9, Douglas built them to last.

The DC-10 did have a very spacious cabin, every time I was on one, I knew I was on a big jet.


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4053 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
Well, it eventually turned into a reliable aircraft.

But the original CF6-6 was not very reliable even in later years.
Only anecdotal evidence but in the mid nineties we shared a hangar with an airline who had 5 DC10-10s. We had 4 L1011-1s.
We were both charter operators flying from ARN down to Greece and Spain. In two years the DC10 mob changed 23 CF6-6 engines. We changed one RB211-22B, and that was time expired.


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4634 posts, RR: 77
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3432 times:
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Quoting Cdekoe (Reply 3):
DC-10 avionics were very advanced for their time: CATIII Dual Autoland, FMS, fuel management etc.
Much less workload for the FE compared to the B747 classic.

I think you are mistaken it for the Tristar. The "FMS" for the -10 was a joke, compared to the L-1011.
"Dual Autoland"...to what decision height ?
"Fuel management" by the F/E...
Give me a Tristar anytime !



Contrail designer
User currently offlineCdekoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 11):
Give me a Tristar anytime !

... and I thought this topic was to Praise the DC-10?!  Wink

I have no experience with the Tristars. Only flew on the 747 and DC10, and was comparing those two.

We performed many full Autolands in CAT III-B conditions at AMS - only needed to apply reverse thrust.
The FMS on the -10 was a lot more sophisticated than the caroussel INS' on the 747 classics as well.

So... praise to the DC-10!  Big grin



We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17118 posts, RR: 66
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):

The Tristar NEVER HAD A DESIGN CAUSED ACCIDENT.

I don't want to dilute the Tristar hoorah (great plane indeed) but the same could be said of the 320, the 330/340, the 777...


The DC-10 sure could look badass. Here is one of my favorite a.nut pics:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sunbird Photos by Don Boyd




"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Isn't there a significant delta in the cargo capacity between the -10 and the Tristars?

It was my understanding that, for their size, the DC-10s could carry a significant cargo uplift.



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
The Tristar NEVER HAD A DESIGN CAUSED ACCIDENT.



Quoting 411A (Reply 8):
very VERY redundant systems.

It didn't have redundant landing gear down and locked indicators or a test to see if the light is functional.  Sad


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 15):
It didn't have redundant landing gear down and locked indicators or a test to see if the light is functional.

What?

Lights test button on the F.E. panel. Push it and very light (that is functional) laminates.

Pop-up indicator on each wing, down (flush with wing skin) when the gear is up and up (approximately 1") when main gear down and locked. View port in aft bulkhead of the forward electronics bay and mechanical lock indicator on nose gear upper jury brace.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Big version: Width: 1260 Height: 1233 File size: 156kb
DC10 Jolly Jet


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 9):
The DC-10 did have a very spacious cabin

As long as it isn't 3-4-3, it will feel more spacious. 3-4-3 on a DC-10 (and MD-11, given that both have the same fuselage cross section) is hell, I can assure you that.  scared 


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the beautiful music the DC10's engines create. Nothing like the sound of 3 CF6's or JT9D's working in unison at takeoff power!  spin 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVRHQJh5UGU
http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...d_Airways_Aviation_Video-4387.html


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

Here's another video from fl350. In addition to the NWA DC-10, listen to the JT9D's I mentioned in my previous posts on those Kalitta 747 classics (as well as the GE90's on the KLM T7).
http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra..._Airlines_Aviation_Video-4139.html


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3736 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
As long as it isn't 3-4-3, it will feel more spacious. 3-4-3 on a DC-10 (and MD-11, given that both have the same fuselage cross section) is hell, I can assure you that.

Thankfully, I only flew on AA DC-10s, they had 2-5-2. 3-4-3 on a DC-10, ouch that sound painful.  ouch 


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2391 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Operational merits include its durability, range, and payload. Some airframes are at or approaching 35 years of age and still going strong. The DC-10-30 had superior range than the L-1011-500, which debuted roughly six years after. Payload is self explanatory, look at all the Fed Ex freighters.

It was passenger friendly for its spacious cabin, large windows, and powerful take-offs. And contrary to popular belief by some, the DC-10 had a good safety record after 1979, although 1989 was a rough year.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
But only after racking up the worst safety record of any widebody aircraft.

Until the MD 11 came along !

Well, first of all the 747 classics have the worst safety record for widebody aircraft. Second, the MD-11 has only had one accident with a significant loss of life.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
The Tristar NEVER HAD A DESIGN CAUSED ACCIDENT.

Yes, and hats off to the Tristar. Although there were incidents with cracks in the wing spars, something I don't remember hearing with the DC-10. Furthermore, it's worth noting each of the DC-10 accidents that were caused by the design had an element of human error.

To the pilots in the forum: Would a DC-10's auto-pilot disengage without warning if the control column was slightly nudged? a la EA 401..

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
If not mistaken, the DC-10 (and MD-11) windows are larger than those on any other current widebodies.

No question, I can not believe how tiny they are on the A330 in comparison.



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3007 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 21):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
As long as it isn't 3-4-3, it will feel more spacious. 3-4-3 on a DC-10 (and MD-11, given that both have the same fuselage cross section) is hell, I can assure you that.

Thankfully, I only flew on AA DC-10s, they had 2-5-2. 3-4-3 on a DC-10, ouch that sound painful.

The DC-10 (and L1011) were even more spacious when they were first introduced as for the first few years most of them had 2-4-2 seating in Y class, comparable to the 3-4-2 for the first 3 or 4 years of 747 service. And they were all at least 34 inch seat pitch in Y class, at least 2 to 3 inches more than most current widebodies.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2839 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 15):
very VERY redundant systems.

It didn't have redundant landing gear down and locked indicators or a test to see if the light is functional.

It did if you knew how to use them.


25 OceansWorld : In the lower forward cargo compartment, the DC-10 can transport 5 88- x 125-in. pallets or 16 LD-3 containers. For almost all DC-10-10s (except the 1
26 Access-Air : Sorry to break it to you but the NW DC10 in this Video is a GE powered DC10-30....not a P&W powered DC10-40....When this video was made all of NW's D
27 MD11Engineer : This is only because so few were built, because Boeing stopped the line after # 200. The Concorde, through one single accident, has a much worser saf
28 TristarSteve : I always worked on the L1011, never on DC-10. However a little CF6 story. This happened in around 1979 in BAH. A KLM DC-10 arrived and parked on the
29 MD11Engineer : I have seen a PW 2040 on a 757 spitting compressor blades after a major compressor stall. Jan
30 747fan : I know, and they sound lovely! I was referring to the 747's with the JT9D's. Sorry about the confusion.
31 VC-10 : I'm an ex-BCAL engineer who worked on the casualty unit and I have say they were a VERY reliable a/c. When BA took over they found they were a lot mo
32 TrijetsRMissed : Not to mention the L-1011's would have never been able to fly the LHR-PHX route the DC-10's were on during the later years.
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