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A300 Take Off Performance  
User currently offlineBoeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

I saw a Fedex A300 take off from YYC on runway 10. This is the shorter of two runways at YYC. It appeared as though it took off very slow but started rotating about halfway down the runway. The length is about 8000 feet so 4000 seems a bit short. Usually I see 737's rotating at about 6000. I suppose with lengths of some airports like SXM being what they are it's entirely possible. Just doesn't seem as though the 4000 ft rotation is normal.

I know some A/C like the 757 have amazing take off performance and climb performance as well. Is the A300 alike
? I know this may be a pointless forum but just wondered if anyone has thoughts on it.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePr1268 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

I flew an AA A300 SJU-MIA (2 hour flight) in July 1996 with a full pax load - I remember the plane rotated before the 6000' marker (1829 m) of SJU's runway 8. Typical performance, I suppose. Maybe it was a slow package delivery day for FX at Calgary that day...  Wink


The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

Sounds like this is the job of the Tech/Ops forum!

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Cargo aircraft tend to use very short runways during the daytime, especially if headed to a nearby destination. At MSP, I've seen FedEx DC-10/MD-10s use 3,000-4,000 foot runways, where as NW DC-10s would never use less than 8,000 feet. Widebodies when not fully loaded and headed to nearby destinations use extremely short runways. Watch a DL 767 at ATL headed for MCO take off and you'll see another example of this, sometimes 3,000 feet and they just pop off the ground.

Jeremy


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Not uncommon at all... the early FX AF6s use the 6900ft runway at BTR quite a bit, and are almost always airborne by 4000-4500ft.

User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4130 times:
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I remember the first time I flew on an A300 I was alarmed to see that we turned onto the runway and accelerated with no flap, we got off the ground pretty smartly and all was well, but this is the only aircraft type I have flown on that used no flap out of JNB.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 5):
I remember the first time I flew on an A300 I was alarmed to see that we turned onto the runway and accelerated with no flap, we got off the ground pretty smartly and all was well, but this is the only aircraft type I have flown on that used no flap out of JNB.

It would have had slats out though, the first flap lever position in the gate is slats and kruegers only.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17168 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 5):
I remember the first time I flew on an A300 I was alarmed to see that we turned onto the runway and accelerated with no flap, we got off the ground pretty smartly and all was well, but this is the only aircraft type I have flown on that used no flap out of JNB.

Hehe. You are not the first. A300 can take off with no flaps. As can (IIRC) the various jet powered Fockers.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBoeingFixer From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
A300 can take off with no flaps

No flaps = yes. No flaps and slats = NO. The minimum takeoff flap setting is Slats 15/Flaps 0 for the A300B4-600.

Cheers,

John



Cheers, John YYC
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
A300 can take off with no flaps.

No, see my preceding post:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 6):
It would have had slats out though, the first flap lever position in the gate is slats and kruegers only.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
As can (IIRC) the various jet powered Fockers

The Fockers were in a film or two. The aircraft are Fokkers. But yes they can take off with no flap.  Smile



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

Focker in a Fokker! Ha ha I always wanted to say that.

So anyway all are correct about the Airbus and the Fokker. Fokkers can also land on grass strips. In fact I beleivethere is one of a 100 doing touch and goes on a grass runway here someplace.



There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offline3DPlanes From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

I took a Sun Country from MSP-MCO one time. Packed in on a single class DC-10, but hey it's a cheap way to leave MSP in the deep of winter...

Leaving MCO, I had a window seat aft of the wings, and IIRC (it's been a few years) we took off with no flaps. I can't promise that exactly... It may have been flaps 5 where they just slide back. But I definitely recall being concerned that they didn't appear to be putting flaps out. This wasn't too long after the crash in Detroit.

So, can the DC-10 do a no flap takeoff?



"Simplicate and add lightness." - Ed Heinemann
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17168 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 9):
The Fockers were in a film or two. The aircraft are Fokkers. But yes they can take off with no flap

Oops. Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSpeedbrd From Puerto Rico, joined Aug 2005, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3843 times:

Here in SJU where AA's A300-605Rs are very common they typically take about 5000ft of runway on take-off, and 4000ft is not uncommon. I've seen some take a bit more than 3000 ft sometimes, perhaps when they made the short hops to STT or SXM. Rotation is brisk and they are very solid climbers. They make for very interesting take-offs in comparison with A320s and 330s

User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

I see UPS A300's takeoff from SDF all the time and they seem to be relatively spritely takeoff performers, although sometimes they'll use closer to about 6 or 7000 ft. of runway. I've noticed during the day that they indeed are usually up in about 5000 ft, maybe a bit more on a hot day or for a longer flight/heavy load. At night, however, they seem to have longer takeoff runs, even to relatively close destinations. Once they're off the ground, they always seem to climb like homesick angels, probably partly because they often only use slats w/ no flaps. Apparently they carry more freight at nighttime than during the day. The 767's seem to be about the same, as well as the DC8's and 727's. The 767's and sometimes the DC8's climb relatively steeply.The MD11's generally fly longer routes and at night when they takeoff to ANC (they stop there before going to Asia), they use at least about 7000 ft. generally and the HNL flight sometimes close to 10000 ft. However they always have a steep climbout.But on short routes (as well as the evening ANC flight generally), they get up pretty quick and have a steep climbout. The 747 flights to ANC, be it day or night, always take their sweet time getting off the ground and climbing (they go over fast and slow). But even 747's on the short flights (such as DFW) are in the air after about 5 or 6000 ft.; I was spotting the other afternoon and noticed a 742 to ONT (a 4 hour flight) get off the ground in about 5000 ft. Of course we all know about the 757's takeoff performance, so I won't go there. Wow, I got a little carried away here, but to sum it up, the A300 seems to have good takeoff performance and especially good climbing performance.

User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10330 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Quoting Boeingluvr (Thread starter):
I suppose with lengths of some airports like SXM being what they are it's entirely possible.

Just to clarify a bit - SXM doesn't really have that short a runway. It's about 7,700 feet long:

http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=NT00001



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 8):
No flaps = yes. No flaps and slats = NO. The minimum takeoff flap setting is Slats 15/Flaps 0 for the A300B4-600.

Curious. On Friday I saw an AA AB6 going back to MIA from SJO, and first the flaps were out, but then , when it was taking off, they went back to a slats only T/O configuration. I'm aware of A300s needing only slats minimum to take off, but that they changed the takeoff configuration when backtracking was a bit odd IMO.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17168 posts, RR: 66
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 15):
Just to clarify a bit - SXM doesn't really have that short a runway. It's about 7,700 feet long:

Indeed. It does take the very largest airliners. But there's a mountain not far from the end.  Wink SXM is actually more taxi limited than anything else. Not a lot of space to maneuver.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2858 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Certain models of DC-9 can also take off with Slats extended/Flaps 0. I've done it quite a few times in Denver.

User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Quoting N710PS (Reply 10):
Fokkers can also land on grass strips. In fact I beleivethere is one of a 100 doing touch and goes on a grass runway here someplace.


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I believe this is the picture you were talking about  Wink

All the best,

Alex


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