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Flying Within The US With A CAA Atpl  
User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

Evening all,

I am currently only 16, and have just completed my GCSE's. I am looking to attend an aviation collage within the UK to gain my ATPL, but I have read somewhere that a CAA ATPL, is not sufficient enough to fly for an airline in the US due to the FAA. Although it's a long way off, I always hoped that after getting my ATPL I would go to the US to fly for an airline such as JetBlue, to see a part of the world I hadn't before, and also to get my hours up before returning to the UK.

So my question is; Will I be able to fly for a US airline with an ATPL issued in the UK without any additional training?

All the best,

Alex

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3415 times:

Alex,

I couldn't imagine it being too difficult. The FAA will validate foreign certificates. However, I've never done it, so I don't know how difficult it would be.

Here's the link: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific...tion/foreign_license_verification/

And here's what the regs have to say about it:

Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart G--Airline Transport Pilots

Sec. 61.153

Eligibility requirements: General.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(a) Be at least 23 years of age;


(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;
(c) Be of good moral character;
(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:
(1) Hold at least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating;
(2) Meet the military experience requirements under Sec. 61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or
(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.
(e) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;
(f) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of Sec. 61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;
(g) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.157(e) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and
(h) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.


Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
I always hoped that after getting my ATPL I would go to the US to fly for an airline such as JetBlue, to see a part of the world I hadn't before, and also to get my hours up before returning to the UK.

This part might be a little more difficult. To get to an airline like jetBlue, you would need to gain experience at a regional airline first. Airlines like jetBlue require that their applicants have experience as a captain on a turbine aircraft before even being considered for a job and this will take a few years to do. Check the websites of your airline of choice and they will list their minimums somewhere in the "careers" or "jobs" sections.

You might have more luck setting your sights on a regional airline. These are the first rung of the career ladder over here and have much lower hiring minimums.

A good website that lists airlines and some info about them is www.airlinepilotcentral.com. Click the segment you want to learn about under "Airline Profiles" and you will find lists of airlines and info.

Now, if you want to have some real fun, come fly in Alaska  Smile PM me if you want to know more about that.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 1):
(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.

That was defiantly the kind of thing I was looking for, thanks Big grin

However;

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 1):
To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(a) Be at least 23 years of age;

I have never heard of this, here in the UK (I believe) you can gain your ATPL above age 18? I was sort of hoping that I could go to the US shortly after getting my ATPL (I should start training at 18, and hopefully get my ATPL by the time I'm 20)

I wouldn't mind getting a first job with a regional; my aim is to see more of a country that I haven't really seen, and I think an airline such as Comair or ASA would be a good way to do this, even if it's not on a country-wide scale.

Thanks very much for all that info, it's defiantly helped me realize what I want to do.

All the best,

Alex

PS. You've got mail  Smile


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
I wouldn't mind getting a first job with a regional; my aim is to see more of a country that I haven't really seen, and I think an airline such as Comair or ASA would be a good way to do this, even if it's not on a country-wide scale.

you should really, really think hard about such choices. if the motivation to go to the u.s. is based off your desire to see the country, i'd say rethink that career choice, there is a vastly different corporate and career escalation culture between u.s. and most european carriers. in the u.s. it is common to "work your way up the mtow" and start small, whilst on carriers such as LH(and possibly BA), you can often find rather young pilots flying long haul whilst the 40+ pilots commonly select to fly intra-european so that they can be home at the family, without taking a hit on the payroll due to flying smaller planes.



10=2
User currently offlineInbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Don't you have to be a US citizen or landed immigrant before being employed in the US as a pilot?


Maintain own separation with terrain!
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3325 times:
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Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
I am looking to attend an aviation collage within the UK

UK aviation college? I didn't even realise one existed! I remember going through a huge list and ended up with Embry-Riddle sounding like the best option.

Quoting Zak (Reply 3):
you can often find rather young pilots flying long haul whilst the 40+ pilots commonly select to fly intra-european

One of the younger SQ pilots I know tells me that he regrets joining the long haul fleet as this means he won't be getting a lot of hours/cycles compared to his other friends. Morale of the story seems to be "accumulate your hours at a short haul carrier, then transfer into a biggie as a captain"

Although....are Ryanair's f/o requirements really high?



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6793 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Actually, the best flying jobs in the US right now are flying cargo, and you only need a Commercial for that. You might consider that; the other possibility is flying fractional ownership jets. That might be a very interesting job.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
UK aviation college? I didn't even realise one existed! I remember going through a huge list and ended up with Embry-Riddle sounding like the best option.

There is one based at Oxford Kidlington Airport.

Most of the flying is done out in Goodyear Arizona, but they have a pair or 737-400 simulators there, along with piston simulators.

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
One of the younger SQ pilots I know tells me that he regrets joining the long haul fleet as this means he won't be getting a lot of hours/cycles compared to his other friends.

I'm not quite as interested in long haul as I am short haul, sitting there for hours on end doesn't seem the most interesting thing to me, and despite the higher paycheck, I have a short attention span and I don't think I would enjoy long haul.

All the best,
Alex


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 7):
Most of the flying is done out in Goodyear Arizona, but they have a pair or 737-400 simulators there, along with piston simulators.

Huh? Are you still talking about ERAU?

There's two campuses, one in PRC (which is the one I go to) and a slightly larger one in DAB, plus hundreds of extended campuses worldwide. Neither campus has a 737 sim.The PRC campus has an A320 sim, it was formerly a Level D but they decided to not use the full motion system, since it is not used for type ratings. We also have 5 Level 6 sims for the C172/PA44.


User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
Huh? Are you still talking about ERAU?

I was never talking about ERAU?

I was talking about the OAT Oxford Campus.


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3234 times:
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http://www.oxfordaviation.net vs www.erau.edu

I guess the confusion stemmed from the use of the word "college", implying to our american english friends that you will get a degree at the end (or tbh, an A-level or something). OAT is a flight school. ERAU is a university offering degrees in flying (so to speak and amongst other things). Almost went there for an aero engineering degree, intending to minor in flight. Afaik, there's nothing like ERAU in the UK, but please feel free to tell me if u find one  Smile

Oxford and Cabair seem to do a fair amount of their instrument training at EGSC, I have to say that Cabair's DA40s are definitely snazzier than OAT's Pipers!



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

There's a list of (almost) all colleges that offer an aviation degree here:

http://www.everythingairborne.com/br.../1/university-flight-programs.html


It looks comprehensive, but aside from the top five or so, its in a weird order. It even has some from Spain on their, so it may have UK ones as well.


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 6):
Actually, the best flying jobs in the US right now are flying cargo, and you only need a Commercial for that. You might consider that; the other possibility is flying fractional ownership jets. That might be a very interesting job.

I don't know if I'd call the freight jobs out there that only require a commercial ticket, the best jobs. They usually require ATP minimums or close to them (1500 hrs) due to the type of operations they do. 135 freight operators, as they are called, usually are great ways to build experience because they are single pilot, IFR, multiengine ops, but typically aren't a place to make a career.

Night freight is definitely the kind of place to begin a career and pay your dues, so to speak, at. Probably the best company at this level is AirNet.

If you are talking about the FedEx's and UPS's of the world, those jobs require years of experience and thousands of hours, plus a ton of luck to even get considered for.

As for the fractionals, the lowest hiring minimums that I know of is Flight Options at 1500 hrs and your ATP written completed. However, Its definitely not the best place to work right now. For the most part, fractional operators will only begin considering you at about 2500 hours.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6793 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3209 times:

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 12):

If you are talking about the FedEx's and UPS's of the world, those jobs require years of experience and thousands of hours, plus a ton of luck to even get considered for.

You may be right; the friends I have flying for them have been there a long time. The one flying for FedEx started flying feeder routes (the ones now flying Cessna Caravans; I don't know what they used then) in the early 80's and worked his way up. He was a 727 check captain, but tranferred to the Airbuses a few years ago. At the time he joined it was pretty easy; but that was a long time ago.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 9):

I was never talking about ERAU?

I was talking about the OAT Oxford Campus



Quoting GoingAround (Reply 7):
Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 5):
UK aviation college? I didn't even realise one existed! I remember going through a huge list and ended up with Embry-Riddle sounding like the best option.

There is one based at Oxford Kidlington Airport.

Most of the flying is done out in Goodyear Arizona, but they have a pair or 737-400 simulators there, along with piston simulators.

Never mind I missed the part I highlighted here when you quoted 9VSIO

My bad


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21423 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 10):
Afaik, there's nothing like ERAU in the UK,

I don't think there are many ERAU-type places outside the US, possibly because outside of the US a lot of airlines will train their pilots from scratch themselves.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTom775257 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 3053 times:

I would be careful trying to get advice about pilot training in the UK from a forum with a mainly American readership, nothing against this forum, but people here seem in general to know the FAA system very well, but not always the JAA/EASA system, which is perfectly understandable. I would recommend reading www.pprune.org and go to the wannabees section. This has a very European bias, so of not much use for those going the FAA route, however useful especially for Brits.

Just to confirm, in the UK, you don't need an ATPL to operate as first officer on a commercial flight. I fly the A320 for a flag carrier airline, I have only a commercial pilot's licence. To get the full ATPL you need to get various requirements such as at least 500 hours multi-crew, 1500 total time etc. To get the ATPL you need to be I think 21. Also there is no such thing as a 'CAA' licence anymore, I have a Joint Aviation Authority' licence, and at some point in the near future EASA will take over licencing. Wanting to work in the US? My understanding is that you will require a green card, or some such way to even be allowed to work doing anything.

Personally I am America/English dual national. I choose to work in Europe because here I can go straight from instructing on PA-28s to flying A320s. I suspect in the USA they wouldn't want 500 hour guys flying medium jets!

All the best.


User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 3050 times:

Little late in the thread i suppose, but here's my knowledge (very limited though) to do with this.

I asked a CFII In the states when i was over there about JAA licences in the States, and apparently all you need to do is do a written (I can't remember if there was an oral exam in there) and a practical. I asked my flying instructor here... and apparently you don't need to do it, so i'd check with the FAA.

I do know that if you have a US issued PPL, but want to fly in the UK you need an instructor with you because the licence isn't recognised. Bear in mind this was in 2004, so it may well have changed since then.


User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
possibly because outside of the US a lot of airlines will train their pilots from scratch themselves.

Not the case in the UK, very few airlines offer ab-initio these days.



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

Quoting Tom775257 (Reply 16):
Just to confirm, in the UK, you don't need an ATPL to operate as first officer on a commercial flight. I fly the A320 for a flag carrier airline, I have only a commercial pilot's licence.

Same in the US. The ATPL is needed to be the Pilot in Command of an airliner, for example, but to be the co-pilot all you need is the CMEL with an instrument rating.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3001 times:
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How does the lack of an ATPL work with being promoted? Does the company send you off to get one when they feel is it the right time?


Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
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