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Pilots Qualified To Fly Both A And B Models  
User currently offlineNwray From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Just wondering if many pilots out there are qualified ( is the term type-rated?) to fly both Airbus and Boeing jets. Thanks.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5356 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

They can be type-rated in as many aircraft as they want or can, but they can be current in only one air transport catergory aircraft.


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3340 times:

Same out here.Only One type can be flown irrespective of number of ratings.In fact its so strict that A pilot flying a similiar family of type eg A320 cannot fly an A319 or A321 on the same day.Although thats being argued.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSfomb67 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3331 times:

We had management test crews that were able to fly several different types. Not sure if they were limited to a certain number of acft, or not. This was for maint test flights, ferry flts, etc. No passenger or revenue flights.


Not as easy as originally perceived
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8867 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 days ago) and read 3316 times:

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 1):
They can be type-rated in as many aircraft as they want or can, but they can be current in only one air transport catergory aircraft.

That is incorrect, many airbus pilots mix fleet fly between A320 series, A330, and A340. I fly both A330/340 sometimes in the same week, and have previously been rated on the 744. Other airlines have their A320 pilots flying A330 or A340s.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5356 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
That is incorrect,

True, I forgot about common cockpits such as those mentioned and the B757/B767.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

Just making a wild guess here but can company policy also forbid this transitioning in between models ?
I seem to remember that at Southwest some of the older pilots flew 200 series, the classics (300) and the NG 737 models all at the same time.



[edit post]
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Only One type can be flown irrespective of number of ratings.In fact its so strict that A pilot flying a similiar family of type eg A320 cannot fly an A319 or A321 on the same day.Although thats being argued.

That's not true in general, certainly not in the US. UA and NW Pilots, for instance, fly A-320 and A-319 aircraft in a single day. I've flown both and the differences are negligible from a pilot's point of view. Lots of pilots fly the 757 and 767 in a day, and the differences between those aircraft are manageable, though greater than for the Airbuses.

Quoting Nwray (Thread starter):
Just wondering if many pilots out there are qualified ( is the term type-rated?) to fly both Airbus and Boeing jets.

For line flying you are generally confined to a single category, which could include both the 757 and 767, but not the 737NG. The 737NG guys can fly the -700 and -800 (etc.) interchangeably. I have type ratings in seven aircraft including the A-320 (which also covers me for the A-318, -319, and -321), the B-757, B-767, and B-747-4[00]. I could be in a category that let me fly all those narrowbody Airbuses, OR the 757/767, OR the 744, but not at the same time. If I wanted to change back to another fleet I would have to go through requal or initial school depending on how long I had been off the airplane (this varies according to country, company, and what's in the company approved training program, normally under AQP in the US.)

Hope this helps.


User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 7):
but not the 737NG. The 737NG guys can fly the -700 and -800 (etc.) interchangeably.

Not sure I follow? At my company I have a B737 Type, I fly same day, week, month; the -500, -300, -700, -800, -900.

The -500,300 are different from NG's in many ways, but it works.

The big difference, is going from a B757-200 to the B767-400; weight, size, control feel, cockpit displays, etc.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3158 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 7):
That's not true in general, certainly not in the US

You left out the 1st three words of my qoute  Smile read it again.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNwray From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Thanks for all the great replies. Is requalifying for another type a long and difficult process, or fairly quick? Do your companies tend to want to keep you on the same type to avoid requalification?

User currently offlineSpeedracer1407 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 8):
Not sure I follow? At my company I have a B737 Type, I fly same day, week, month; the -500, -300, -700, -800, -900.

The -500,300 are different from NG's in many ways, but it works.

I thought that was because CO's 737NGs are set up to display instruments that look similar to analogue "steam" gauges of the classics.



Dassault Mercure: the plane that has Boeing and Airbus shaking in their boots.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 11):
I thought that was because CO's 737NGs are set up to display instruments that look similar to analogue "steam" gauges of the classics.

That was a requirement imposed on the 737NG by Southwest. There's a switch to flip the symbol generators between the normal glass cockpit layout and a simulation of the "steam gauge" layout used on the 737CL. You need to use the latter if you want the flight crews working both 737CL and 737NG interchangeably.

Tom.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 1):
They can be type-rated in as many aircraft as they want or can, but they can be current in only one air transport catergory aircraft.

That is incorrect, many airbus pilots mix fleet fly between A320 series, A330, and A340. I fly both A330/340 sometimes in the same week, and have previously been rated on the 744. Other airlines have their A320 pilots flying A330 or A340s.

Quite a few LX Airbus pilots fly all narrowbody and widebody models in their fleet interchangeably (A319/320/321/330/340). They require a certain amount of experience before they can qualify to do this.


User currently offlineDmanmtl From Canada, joined May 2006, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

I am wondering, in the case of Air Canada, for example, the new 777s are flown by who? Former Airbus pilots? Former 767 guys...any ideas?

D in Mtl


User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

At PSA it is not un common to fly the 50 seater (CR2) and than hop over to a 70 (CR7) during the course of a day and go back and fourth during a trip. Some trips are all one varient and others have more mix than trail mix. At mainline I know that the 320 guys fly the 319, 320 and 321 but they do not fly the 330 and as far as 757 and 767 common type goes they do not mix and mingle as far as I have experinced or known over on that side either.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 8):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 7):
but not the 737NG. The 737NG guys can fly the -700 and -800 (etc.) interchangeably.

Not sure I follow? At my company I have a B737 Type, I fly same day, week, month; the -500, -300, -700, -800, -900.

Absolutely correct. Sorry that I wasn't clear, I was trying to use a simple example. My airline only has NG's, so I wasn't thinking about all possible permutations. Note, though, that at some carriers there are different 737 categories due to extensive differences training. Delta formerly had four separate 737 categories.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 7):
That's not true in general, certainly not in the US

You left out the 1st three words of my qoute read it again.
regds

I did, but can't see what you're getting at. "Same out here." are the first three words, but I can't see what you are agreeing with. Are you saying that that the A-320 and A-319 are the same type? (They are in the US for type rating purposes.)

Quoting Dmanmtl (Reply 14):
I am wondering, in the case of Air Canada, for example, the new 777s are flown by who? Former Airbus pilots? Former 767 guys...any ideas?

The real question is who is senior enough to hold them, and who wants to bid it.

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 8):
The big difference, is going from a B757-200 to the B767-400; weight, size, control feel, cockpit displays, etc.

 checkmark  The 757 and 767 are completely different animals in control feel.


User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 days ago) and read 2987 times:

Quoting Speedracer1407 (Reply 11):
I thought that was because CO's 737NGs are set up to display instruments that look similar to analogue "steam" gauges of the classics.

correct

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
That was a requirement imposed on the 737NG by Southwest. There's a switch to flip the symbol generators between the normal glass cockpit layout and a simulation of the "steam gauge

Just so we are clear for the people asking, there is NO switch in the cockpit to switch this config.

Quoting Dmanmtl (Reply 14):
am wondering, in the case of Air Canada, for example, the new 777s are flown by who? Former Airbus pilots? Former 767 guys...any ideas?

Any ideas, "yeah"

Whoever bid it, it has nothing to do with what you flew before, it's all about your seniority.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 16):
did, but can't see what you're getting at. "Same out here." are the first three words, but I can't see what you are agreeing with. Are you saying that that the A-320 and A-319 are the same type? (They are in the US for type rating purposes.)

Same out here as in Same out here in INDIA.
Currently IT is arguing this rule with the Authorities as in case their A321 is AOG for some reason the crew cannot operate a standby A320/319 under the present rules.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 17):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
That was a requirement imposed on the 737NG by Southwest. There's a switch to flip the symbol generators between the normal glass cockpit layout and a simulation of the "steam gauge

Just so we are clear for the people asking, there is NO switch in the cockpit to switch this config.

Correct. I believe it's a pin configuration in the E/E bay. Not something the pilots can change but it doesn't require any new hardware or software on the aircraft.

Tom.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6832 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 6):
I seem to remember that at Southwest some of the older pilots flew 200 series, the classics (300) and the NG 737 models all at the same time.

I believe that as far as the FAA is concerned a 737 type rating is a 737 type rating, period. That means legally you could train on a 737-200 and jump into a 737-900ER with no further training; however I doubt that any airline would allow that. I suspect that the airlines have their own policies, and they are stricter than the FAA's.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 20):
That means legally you could train on a 737-200 and jump into a 737-900ER with no further training

Not out here.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

Quoting Dmanmtl (Reply 14):
I am wondering, in the case of Air Canada, for example, the new 777s are flown by who? Former Airbus pilots? Former 767 guys...any ideas?

When the B777s appeared on the equipment bid last year, they were open to anyone that had the seniority to hold it.

B777 CAs came from the A340/330, B767 and even A320. B777 FOs were the same with the addition of one EMJ CA. B777 RPs with a few exceptions are all new-hires.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 20):
That means legally you could train on a 737-200 and jump into a 737-900ER with no further training; however I doubt that any airline would allow that.

In Canada the type ratings are split into two groups ... B73A for the -100 and -200, and B73B for the -300 and higher.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6832 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
Not out here.

But you're not ruled by the FAA. Lucky you.

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 22):

In Canada the type ratings are split into two groups ... B73A for the -100 and -200, and B73B for the -300 and higher.

Again, perhaps Canadian authorities have more sense than the FAA; it wouldn't be hard. In GA in the US, it's not the FAA that dictates what you can fly, it's usually the insurance companies. I suspect the same may exist in the airlines, although the airlines themselves may institute rules without being pushed by insurance companies. It's really bad for business to kill passengers, so they try pretty hard to avoid it.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 20):
legally you could train on a 737-200 and jump into a 737-900ER with no further training

Not at all the case. Read FAR 121.418 regarding "differences" training.

Differences training will cover whatever is different between the planes you cite, the only thing that will not be needed is any new airman certificate. (license or rating)

At one end, I've seen a Part 121 non-sked with two airplanes that were as identical as could be. One had painted cowling and the other had polished metal but the FAA did not care about that. The "differences" program in this case came down to this: The transponder on one was wired through ground shift and the other had to be turned on and off entering and leaving the runway. So the "training program" was a memo from the chief pilot explaining this difference and admonishing the pilots to be diligent about turning the one on and off. Each pilot had to initial that he'd read the memo and everyone was happy.

At the other end I've seen a full eight hours of differences between 727-100 and 727-200 with -7, -15 or -17 engines and any number of other variations. This company's fleet had come from all over the world and we used to joke that they'd have had a shorter program if they'd taught "similarities" instead of differences.

Be assured that when (for one example) Alaska's 737-200 combis were finally parked, those pilots got a comprehensive course of instruction on the -400 or the NG aircraft, depending on where they were headed. On the other hand they didn't have to get a new license.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
25 Post contains images HAWK21M : Isn't FAA easier than DGCA regds MEL
26 Post contains images BA777ER236 : I'm amazed by this HAWK21M! The Airbus FBW a/c were designed very much with this in mind, also with the 737, both in 'classic' and NG form, and of co
27 HAWK21M : Thats exactly the Arguement of IT management & they hope the Worldwide senario will convince the Local Authorities. regds MEL
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