Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Small Turbine Aircraft (ie C152/C172)  
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1265 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10466 times:

I was reading about the Turbine 206 which got me wondering if there are any smaller airplanes with turbine engines.

Has anyone ever modified one of the smaller Cessna singles? If not, are piston engines inherently more efficient below a certain size, and if so, why is that?


You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

http://www.tradewind-bonanza.com/bonanza/main.html

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10371 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting A346Dude (Thread starter):
Has anyone ever modified one of the smaller Cessna singles?

The closest thing I've ever seen is a turbine Luscombe:





Quoting A346Dude (Thread starter):
If not, are piston engines inherently more efficient below a certain size, and if so, why is that?

The operating efficiency of, say, an O-200 or O-235 is probably superior to even the smaller turbine engines, but I think the real obstacle for turbine engines is the overhaul/replacement costs.


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10357 times:

there is the turbine toucan:

http://www.airshowbuzz.com/videos/view.php?v=af4c9175



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1096 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10350 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
The operating efficiency of, say, an O-200 or O-235 is probably superior to even the smaller turbine engines, but I think the real obstacle for turbine engines is the overhaul/replacement costs.

Wouldn't a turbine be a power-overkill on a light single? As far as I know, and have been looking at this field with some interest, the lowest-powered feasible turbine is in the 300 HP range. That would be way to much for a Cessna 150 or 172, despite the higher empty weight and additional fuel tankage needed...



No plane, no gain.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10356 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 4):
Wouldn't a turbine be a power-overkill on a light single? As far as I know, and have been looking at this field with some interest, the lowest-powered feasible turbine is in the 300 HP range.

The turbine Luscombe uses a 150 hp APEX T62-32...

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 4):
That would be way to much for a Cessna 150 or 172

Nonsense! As the saying goes, the only time an airplane is overpowered is when you can accelerate while pointed straight up at idle.  biggrin 


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21080 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10340 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
As the saying goes, the only time an airplane is overpowered is when you can accelerate while pointed straight up at idle.

I still wouldn't consider that overpowered.  biggrin 

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10335 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
I still wouldn't consider that overpowered.

Ok, perhaps we should amend the definition of "overpowered", at least for single-engine aircraft:

An aircraft is overpowered when, upon advancing the throttle 1mm, the resulting torque overcomes all aileron authority and continuously snap-rolls the aircraft until the throttle is returned to idle.


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10328 times:

Quoting A346Dude (Thread starter):
I was reading about the Turbine 206 which got me wondering if there are any smaller airplanes with turbine engines.

Has anyone ever modified one of the smaller Cessna singles? If not, are piston engines inherently more efficient below a certain size, and if so, why is that?

I know there are Seawind 3000's running around with turboprops.

Efficiency for both Otto (piston) and Brayton (turbine) cycles scales with the compression ratio/pressure ratio. Getting good compression isn't too hard on a piston, you just have to watch out for knock. Getting good compression on a small turbine is hard because it scales with blade speed and, with small turbines, you need enourmous RPM for that. A piston is also much cheaper to purchase, operate, and overhaul for small sizes.

At the extreme other end of the scale, turbines and extremely large two-cycle diesels are about on par for efficiency.

Tom.


User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1096 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10306 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
The turbine Luscombe uses a 150 hp APEX T62-32...

Interesting, didn't know that turbines of that power existed... well then, one of these would certainly be welcome in the Skyhawk... especially during summer, taking off from a 1800 ft-elevation strip in +30 C with full fuel and two pax and forest-fire smoke drifting around Big grin. We had to climb at a whopping 200 fpm to avoid overheating the engine...

Is the APEXs fuel consumption significantly higher than that of a standard piston engine in that power range?



No plane, no gain.
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10265 times:

Supposedly a turbine C152 landed at PRC once, but I never saw it. Word of mouth form the flightline.

User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1265 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 3):
there is the turbine toucan:

http://www.airshowbuzz.com/videos/vi...c9175

Now THAT is a cool airplane. Apparently the power to weight ratio is greater than 1.0 so it can hover like a helicopter!

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 1):
http://www.tradewind-bonanza.com/bonanza/main.html

Another ridiculously powerful aircraft. Interesting quote that a turbine is around 100 times more reliable than a piston engine.



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

I have been up close with a turbine Bonanza that was being flown as an Air Ambulance. Quite an intresting airplane. This was about two years ago.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10155 times:

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 11):
Now THAT is a cool airplane. Apparently the power to weight ratio is greater than 1.0 so it can hover like a helicopter!

Actually hellicopter have power to weight ratio way lower than 1 (around 0.25). Only fighter or rockets have power to wieght more than 1


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10121 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 10):
Supposedly a turbine C152 landed at PRC once

What powerplant.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 61
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10101 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 9):
Is the APEXs fuel consumption significantly higher than that of a standard piston engine in that power range?

I've heard 16 gph for the Luscombe.

There's video of a turbine Super Cub here.


2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10051 times:

Quoting A346Dude (Thread starter):
got me wondering if there are any smaller airplanes with turbine engines.

http://www.skymasterjet.com/image3/fl03.jpg


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6704 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9970 times:

Offhand I think it was the 1960s that somebody put a ... 40 hp? Rover? turbine in a Currie Wot. 60000 RPM sticks in my mind.

User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2221 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9945 times:

Comp Air Turbines I believe make a kit thats 4 seats. A great aircraft.



ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9798 times:

I used to work on a Garrett powered Pilatus Turbo Porter for Clay Lacey back in the day....it could damn near take off vertically.

User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1096 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9757 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15):
I've heard 16 gph for the Luscombe.

That's not at all much, given the boost in performance (especially T-O, climb and hot-and-high) and reliability.



No plane, no gain.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9725 times:

A long-lived Canadian type that's had both turbine conversions:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Pineau
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lenn Bayliss



And was also factory-built as the Turbo-Beaver:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Olafson



By the way, the DHC-2 Beaver made it's first flight 60 years ago next Thursday (August 16, 1947).


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1017 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9714 times:



Powerplant

Pratt & Whitney: PT6A-25C
Horsepower: 750

Empty weight: 1600 lbs


Brake release to 3000 meters in 1 minute 9 seconds  Wow!


http://www.waynehandley.com/archive.html


User currently offlineMark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9686 times:

Quoting T prop (Reply 22):
Brake release to 3000 meters in 1 minute 9 seconds

OMG wow thats some serious stuff, look at the other spec though:

Fuel Capacity 150 gallons / Jet-A
G Limits 12 positive / 12 negative
Take-off Distance 200 feet @ performance weight
Landing Distance 800 feet (using reverse thrust)
Max Climb 10,000 fpm @ 120 KIAS
Cruise Climb 4,500 fpm @ 215 KIAS
Service Ceiling 30,000+ feet
Fuel Consumption 45 gph @ cruise power
Range 800 nm (VFR reserves)
Endurance 3 hours (VFR reserves)
Vne (never exceed) 300 KIAS
Vs1 (stall) 65 KIAS
Vref (approach) 80 KIAS
Top Speed @ 3,000 feet 260 KIAS (300 mph)
75% Power @ 3,000 feet 230 KIAS
Sustainable Vertical Speed 60 KIAS, 5,000 fpm, straight up!


Now that seems rather impressive for a plane that size!

Mark



I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1017 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9650 times:

Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 23):
OMG wow thats some serious stuff, look at the other spec though:

I never got to see it fly before it crashed but a friend of mine did. He said that Handley in that machine gave one of the most amazing performances he has ever seen.


25 2H4 : I'd agree with that. Handley would point the airplane straight up, hang it on the prop, and perform his "elevator routine". By applying or reducing p
26 Sv2008 : I think it just used to much fuel. They could probably reduce the fuel consumption now to acceptable levels, but it'd still not be near as that of a
27 Tornado82 : I saw a C182 with a turbine at ABE once or twice last year. He went apesh*t on a poor refueler who drove the 100LL truck over to him. Can't say I blam
28 A346Dude : I'd say it's his responsibility to supervise refueling every time with an airplane like that. I'm sure it'd be worth the hassle though!
29 Tornado82 : No doubt about that.
30 2H4 : Are you sure it was a 182? Turbine 210s I've seen, but never a turbine 182.... 2H4
31 Tornado82 : I talked to the guy about it for a few minutes the 2nd time I saw it, so yes I'm as sure as can be.
32 2H4 : Wow, I'd love to see a photo. I've scoured the internet (as well as our database), and I can't find a single example. 2H4
33 Post contains links Viscount724 : Here it is!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4-IQSLqic4
34 ATCT : That video is of a Piston powered Cessna 182. Just listen to the beginning. (Shakes head)... Note the Manifold Pressure gauge...I havent seen one of t
35 Post contains links BHMBAGLOCK : Unless for example it's a turbine GlassAir. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X28231&key=1 Exactly! I wouldn't swear to it, but I seem
36 KBFIspotter : I have always wanted to take a straight tail 150 with a texas taildragger STC and mount a PT-6 or Walter 601 in the nose... It would be a plane for t
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Small Turbine Aircraft (ie C152/C172)
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Xwind, How Much Can You Push A Small Aircraft? posted Fri Oct 31 2003 01:29:46 by SSTjumbo
Piston/turbine Engines On One Aircraft posted Tue Sep 2 2003 19:02:03 by Timz
What Aircraft Is That Pls? posted Sun Jul 29 2007 15:53:48 by Readytotaxi
Aircraft Registration Number Vs. Tail/Fleet Number posted Tue Jul 24 2007 21:07:14 by Aogdesk
Aircraft Electrical Systems- Types? posted Sat Jul 21 2007 04:52:02 by MissedApproach
Aircraft Service Intervals posted Wed Jul 18 2007 19:24:21 by Captainsimon
Test Flights - Commercial Aircraft posted Tue Jul 17 2007 09:59:35 by HAWK21M
SE P990i & Aircraft Related PDF Files posted Mon Jul 16 2007 08:02:29 by HAWK21M
All SQ Aircraft - Why No Personal Air-conditioner posted Sun Jul 15 2007 07:22:52 by FlyboyOz
Dont Aircraft Controls Have An Error Overide? posted Tue Jul 3 2007 22:18:43 by NEMA

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format