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Question About R/T  
User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

First post in Tech ops, so go easy  Wink

I'm learning to fly, and i'm nervous about making radio calls, which i guess is fair enough. But, i have a noticeable stutter, and i can't help it. If i'm singing, or really relaxed, i might do it once or twice in a conversation, but under stress i do it so much i don't see the point in trying to talk (And we all know how unrelaxed flying is, especially landing and taking off). Basically, the person gets a face full of air and spit, rather than my side of the argument.

Anything i can do to relax myself, or try and make myself less stutter prone? I really feel embarrassed about it, and even had speech therapy which didn't really help.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Here's a simple formula for making understandable radio calls that I used with primary students.

1) Who are you calling?
2) Who are you?
3) Where are you?
4) What do you want?
5) What do you have?

Any time you make an initial call, regardless of who it is (ground, tower, approach, center) use these five steps. The controller will know everything they need to know and will be able to tell you what they want you to do.

If you're brand new, take it one step at a time. Taxing is tough, take off is tough, cruise is tough, landing is tough. You get it. Work on one thing at a time. As you get each thing, move on to the next. After a couple flights you'll be able to spend less time worrying about say, the radios, and more time focusing on airspeed and set up for approach to landing.



DMI
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2014 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
And we all know how unrelaxed flying is,

One should be relaxed when doing routine flying.

Maybe some of your stress from R/T could be reduced by visiting an ATC facility. Share your issue with some of the ATCOs you'll meet. Next time you are up and have to talk, you will have a mental picture of the other side and thus a sense of familiarity. Maybe that will reduce the turmoil a bit.
It helped a few of my students.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineBuzz From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 697 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Hi ADJ1992, Buzz here. I'm not the flying professional that others are... I learned to fly classic airplanes the classic way, taildraggers on grass strips, so that it was hard to hear over the interphone (grin). There was less traffic to talk to at uncontrolled airstrips.

Over here in the States, it is permissible to use the "student" name after your aircraft call sign, e.g. "Hillsboro Tower, Champ 83096 Student, Corneilius Pass, Inbound with Mike" Then the people in the tower give you somewhat more patience and latitude on your radio chatter.

Another thought is to get a scanner radio and listen to it while you do routine stuff around the house. You get used to hearing what's being said, what's expected next. So... there's less chance of having "cranial flatulence" (grin)

I have a slight problem with stuttering, get a little tongue tied when the pressure's on. I can empathize.

g'day


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Since the beginning of time, the priorities in flying have been aviate, navigate, communicate.

AVIATE: Fly the airplane. Ignoring this first priority could see you spinning into the ground off the departure end of the runway while you focus on proper R/T phraseology.

NAVIGATE: Your instructions are to turn right after takeoff? DO THAT. Do it and don't be so concerned about yakking with the tower that you forget and turn left.

COMMUNICATE: Only after the above tasks are done need you worry about talking to anyone. Years ago, in the Stone Age when I started flying, a busy pilot might respond to the tower with two clicks of the mike button, The old carbon microphones would produce two distinct pops on the receiver that meant, "I heard you but I am too busy to talk , right now."

"Mike Fright" is a common problem for many newbies; I agree with the previous poster who said that you should spend time listening to ATC and you will be surprised at how repetitive and routine it all sounds.

If the stuttering problem persists, go see a speech therapist. Stuttering is one of the most curable speech impediments.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 4):
I agree with the previous poster who said that you should spend time listening to ATC and you will be surprised at how repetitive and routine it all sounds.

With this from ThirtyEcho and what Spree mentions about a visit, that will certainly help make a much more comfortable time, and don't forget that "student pilot" phrase, gives a controller an idea to talk slower.

And congrats on taking flying lessons, great experiences and much more await.  Smile



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineIFACN From Italy, joined Nov 2005, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

Being nervous is normal in the first phase of the training; I've been into it recently - just yesterday my instructor remembered me how totally unrelaxed I was up to the first 10 or so hours in the cockpit, compared to my actual approach to the airplane.

Being nervous about radio calls is normal, usually because you're new and afraid of misunderstanding or saying the wrong thing, or saying something stupid or funny.
Try to exercise at home. Pretend to be in the cockpit and do all the startup procedure, the taxiing, etc. with radio calls and ATC replies as if it was the real thing.

Of course, if you have any doubt, ask your instructor.

A.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

Oh, and one more thing. If you don't understand what the controller said, don't be afraid to ask. If needed, get them to give you instructions in plain english. They might get snippy with you (there was one notorious controller where I trained) but I'd rather get a little grief over the radio than a violation.


DMI
User currently offlineRyanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Thread starter):
But, i have a noticeable stutter, and i can't help it.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you have a stutter of a bad degree (thus preventing you from speaking to ATC or being really unreadable in radio transmissions) it will be very hard to get a PPL purely because R/T is big portion of flying and you also need an aurally assessed radio licence too. It might seem ok at the moment because your instructor is doing it for you, but when the solo comes he won't be there and thus will you be able to do it yourself? Have you told the school or instructor about your stutter?

I'm sorry to say the above but I think it really will be a problem trying to get a PPL with a stutter that prevents you from transmitting to ATC. Your instructor should have said this to you.

Regards


User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 8):
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you have a stutter of a bad degree (thus preventing you from speaking to ATC or being really unreadable in radio transmissions) it will be very hard to get a PPL purely because R/T is big portion of flying and you also need an aurally assessed radio licence too. It might seem ok at the moment because your instructor is doing it for you, but when the solo comes he won't be there and thus will you be able to do it yourself? Have you told the school or instructor about your stutter?

I'm sorry to say the above but I think it really will be a problem trying to get a PPL with a stutter that prevents you from transmitting to ATC. Your instructor should have said this to you.

Regards

Not to make you feel bad.... but you've really taken the wind out of my sails.....

I haven't told my school about it but if it posed a problem i should think they would have told me. I didn't know i had to tell them. It's not really that bad, but if i'm stressed it can get pretty bad, i suppose. It's not like i can't talk, but sometimes i feel like there's no point in me trying to talk.

I feel like giving up on it, at the moment, because today i've had some pretty denting news about wanting to do flying as a career.


User currently offlineA10WARTHOG From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 9):
Not to make you feel bad.... but you've really taken the wind out of my sails.....

I haven't told my school about it but if it posed a problem i should think they would have told me. I didn't know i had to tell them. It's not really that bad, but if i'm stressed it can get pretty bad, i suppose. It's not like i can't talk, but sometimes i feel like there's no point in me trying to talk.

I feel like giving up on it, at the moment, because today i've had some pretty denting news about wanting to do flying as a career.

Man do not get down on yourself. When I started taxi aircraft, I was nervous talking to ATC. Put in time I found it was just like changing a tire on the plane. You do it enough, you get used to it. It is really like learning a second language. Keep with it.


User currently offlineRyanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

I'm sorry to have told you but unfortunately if the stutter is prevalent when you’re on the radio it really isn't a positive thing in terms of gaining a flying licence, R/T is critical when you’re flying alone, if you can't do it your screwed basically.

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 9):
I haven't told my school about it but if it posed a problem i should think they would have told me. I didn't know i had to tell them.

Some flying schools just care about money so unless you brought it up they wouldn't stop you flying, more flights from you equals more money for them. Simple truth, it’s the way that most private schools operate. Of course when it is getting up to solo and if you still can't transmit without stuttering then they probably will say well you can't go solo, but then you would have wasted about £2000-£3000 because they didn't tell you in the first place.

If you can combat the stutter then you have no problems, if you can't, I see difficulty with you doing the PPL.

Quoting A10WARTHOG (Reply 10):
When I started taxi aircraft, I was nervous talking to ATC.

Yeah but this is different cause he has a stutter, it ain't just nerves.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21564 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 9):
Not to make you feel bad.... but you've really taken the wind out of my sails.....

Don't let it. Unless your stutter really holds you back in normal conversation, it's not a big deal.

Because that's really all ATC communication is - a conversation. ATC is not a phraseology police - I can't emphasize that enough. The most important thing is giving them the information they need, not saying the right words .Most controllers would much rather you make a few phraseology errors but get your point across quickly than tie up the frequency trying to get everything perfect. Let them worry about sticking to exact phraseology. Yours will come with time, just as theirs did (remember, they are professionals who have been very highly trained and probably have a few years experience - you should hear some of the crazy things they say when they're at the same point with their ATC training as you are with your pilot training). Ask your instructor for extra help if you need it.

I agree with visiting a facility if you can - while there, ask the controllers what you as a pilot can do to help them out. Listening to ATC communications is also good, but be careful as there are some laws about what exactly you can and can't do in the UK.

And if the problem persists, take ThirtyEcho's suggestion and see a speech therapist. There is no reason for this problem to hold you back.

-Mir

[Edited 2007-10-01 20:07:23]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 8):
I'm sorry to say the above but I think it really will be a problem trying to get a PPL with a stutter that prevents you from transmitting to ATC

I'd rather someone have a stutter and speak slower but be able to understand them rather than someone speaking in a very broken language so fast there is no way to figure out if the read back was correct or not, let alone having to be responsible for it.

Respectfully, I think you were/are way off base with your comment and attitude, nice going.

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 9):
I feel like giving up on it, at the moment, because today i've had some pretty denting news about wanting to do flying as a career.

Don't you dare.....have you ever heard of the "Jimmy V Motto" the former basketball coach at North Carolina State University who died of cancer probably 10 yrs back? The "Jimmy V Motto", is "Don't give up, Don't ever give up"!!!! It is so very true, follow your dream and keep smiling.

Quoting A10WARTHOG (Reply 10):
Man do not get down on yourself. When I started taxi aircraft, I was nervous talking to ATC. Put in time I found it was just like changing a tire on the plane. You do it enough, you get used to it. It is really like learning a second language. Keep with it.

Well said.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineRyanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 13):
Respectfully, I think you were/are way off base with your comment and attitude, nice going.

No I wasn't, your reading too much into it. I said that on my posts I didn't mean to be harsh by the way I said it, I'm trying to save him money if worse came to the worse by telling him straight. I think it is you that is giving false hope.

Like I said before, recover from the stutter=fantastic, and I give you all the luck in the world.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=270321&highlight=stutter - see here.

[Edited 2007-10-01 20:19:44]

User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 13):
Don't you dare.....have you ever heard of the "Jimmy V Motto" the former basketball coach at North Carolina State University who died of cancer probably 10 yrs back? The "Jimmy V Motto", is "Don't give up, Don't ever give up"!!!! It is so very true, follow your dream and keep smiling.

I hadn't.... 10 years ago i was only 4 and i'm not from the US.

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 14):
No I wasn't, your reading too much into it. I said that on my posts I didn't mean to be harsh by the way I said it, I'm trying to save him money if worse came to the worse by telling him straight. I think it is you that is giving false hope.

Regardless of who is right, i'm glad you said it said it, because i didn't realise how serious this can be.

I'm really not in the best of moods regarding this, even my careers advisor at school has said basically "go for it, but have something to fall back on in case you mess up somewhere along the line".

Didn't exactly fill me with confidence.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 9):
I feel like giving up on it,

Bullshit man!  redflag  Press on!  thumbsup 

Nothing in life worth having comes free or easy. Buy a pocket tape recorder and practice PPL ATC phraseology to yourself. Over your lifetime you will overcome bigger issues than this.

"Positive Rate"



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21564 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 15):
I'm really not in the best of moods regarding this, even my careers advisor at school has said basically "go for it, but have something to fall back on in case you mess up somewhere along the line".

Didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

That's good advice, not just for you but for anyone who's looking to be a pilot, or any other career. Things can happen that screw over your plans, and it's always good to have a backup. This is even more of the case in aviation, since you're going to have to remain healthy enough to pass a medical every six months. You could have a freak accident that ruined your career, and then what would you do? It sucks that you're so vulnerable, but that's the nature of the beast. So I wouldn't take it personally.

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 14):
I said that on my posts I didn't mean to be harsh by the way I said it, I'm trying to save him money if worse came to the worse by telling him straight. I think it is you that is giving false hope.

I think you're being far too quick to judge. Rare is the student who does not have a serious problem with some aspect of the PPL. For him it's R/T. Those things take some time to get over, and we don't know how long he's been flying for. It took me more than ten flights of landing practice to get over my fear of flaring too much (which made me flare too little), but I did eventually get it. There's no reason that he can't get over his R/T jitters either.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
but I did eventually get it. There's no reason that he can't get over his R/T jitters either.

 checkmark 



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1729 times:
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Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 15):

I hadn't.... 10 years ago i was only 4 and i'm not from the US.

You have plenty of time to work on it. Two years before you can solo, so get lots of practice in and don't give up.



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17027 posts, RR: 67
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Just a preface: I know very little about stuttering or ATC calls. But here are my HK$0.02 anyway.

"Practice practice practice". I have known a couple of people with a stutter. Practicing helps. Get a friend to read the lines with you as if you are practicing for a play.

My suggestion would be to frame what you are about to say in your head before opening your mouth. Also known as "engage brain before speaking". You might take a second or two longer to respond but that's less important than getting it right.

In any case, a lot of pilots click the button and go "And-ummmmmmmmmmmmm" for a second before the speech autopilot kicks in. A while back a poster joked that he would patent a button in the cockpit. When pressed, it would immediately transmit "And-ummmmmmmmmmmmm" over the radio.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAjd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
I think you're being far too quick to judge. Rare is the student who does not have a serious problem with some aspect of the PPL. For him it's R/T. Those things take some time to get over, and we don't know how long he's been flying for. It took me more than ten flights of landing practice to get over my fear of flaring too much (which made me flare too little), but I did eventually get it. There's no reason that he can't get over his R/T jitters either.

I've got 4 hrs 20 (4 in PA38, 20 mins in a DA-40)

I don't know how bad mine is, i guess nobody has a scale.

Any other ideas for aviation careers (that aren't military)?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21564 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1657 times:

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 21):
I've got 4 hrs 20 (4 in PA38, 20 mins in a DA-40)

I don't know how bad mine is, i guess nobody has a scale.

Alright, let's put things in perspective for a minute:

You have just under five hours flight time. It is WAY too early to start panicking. I didn't even touch the radios until I was about where you are time-wise when I was doing PPL training. I was scared shitless the first time I hit the PTT button as well, and I probably didn't sound all that confident. Same thing went on until I got to about my tenth flight, at which point I discovered that it wasn't nearly as complicated as I thought, and I got a lot better very quickly. You will also find that while takeoffs and landings are stressful for you now, with time they will become far more routine, and so that will also help ease your mind.

If you get to 20-25 hours, and this problem is still holding you back, then by all means look for more intensive means of correcting it. But you're just starting out. Please don't let this problem demoralize you - I can't say that enough. Ask your instructor for help, and ask them to take the time on the ground to tell you what to say at various phases of the flight - what information ATC will want from you, and what information you can expect from them.

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 21):
Any other ideas for aviation careers (that aren't military)?

Plenty. But you obviously want to fly, so fly. This is but a mere speed bump on your road to your dreams, so don't let it derail them.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 22 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

Dude, in the past two days I've been in and out of IAD and ORD about four times each. Yesterday was my second time at ORD and my first during an evening push. I felt like I had never used a radio at first but caught on.

Moral of the story, even the pros (and with me I use that term VERY loosely) have troubles with the radios sometimes. Slow down, think before you speak and if you don't know, ask. You'll do just fine every time if you remember to do this.



DMI
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