LASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1 Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
after the pilot chooses (in the manual it says 1+F) which means that slats would be deployed with 1st setting of flaps. do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter): do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?
Not sure exactly what you mean. Ailerons should never BOTH 'tilt downward'. When one is down, the other should be up. This is what makes the airplane bank. Did you mean to say "do the FLAPS also tilt downwards" ?
N710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Not true, aileron droop is a very common feature to many many airplanes at certain flap settings. I know for sure the airbus family is one of those aircraft groups that it is a feature of.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1): This is what makes the airplane bank.
In the traditional sense, that's correct, but nowadays, ailerons have become multifunctional. Aileron droop at certain flap settings are pretty common (hence why they may also becalled flaperons). Look at the 767 and 777 for example, as their inboard ailerons droop in a certain degree dependant on a particular flap setting. On the A340-500/-600, ailerons can even work as lift dumpers assisting the ground spoilers, since they extend upwards with the ground spoilers when the aircraft touches down and rolls out.
An aileron isn't just an aileron anymore on many aircraft.
N710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
I have pics someplace that will show the narrow body Airbus and A-330 in various configs from my ceaseless non reving on days off and commuteing.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4): Aileron droop at certain flap settings are pretty common (hence why they may also becalled flaperons).
Well you learn something new every day. Is this an official term - flaperons? You europeans come up with the craziest things.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19717 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7): You europeans come up with the craziest things.
It's not just Europeans, Boeing has flaperons on the 777 as well.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7): Is this an official term - flaperons? You europeans come up with the craziest things. Silly
It is indeed a real word. However IIRC it is used by Boeing. Airbus uses "drooping ailerons". Or is it the other way around?
Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron). As seen on many modern fighters such as the F/A-18 where the elevators also provide additional roll control.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 8): It's not just Europeans, Boeing has flaperons on the 777 as well.
Well I'll be darn. The whole world has gone mad!
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9): Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron).
You could argue whether it is a real word or not. It is used by Boeing however, so that must give it some authority. Irregardless isn't a real word, but people still use it regardless.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9): Another fun multiunction surface term is elevon (elevator+aileron). As seen on many modern fighters such as the F/A-18 where the elevators also provide additional roll control.
Elevon is a much older word and usually refers to the controls on a delta. The differential all moving tail on the F-18, Tornado, Jaguar, etc. is more often called a taileron (equally as ugly as flaperon), rather than elevon.
The reason I don't like the term flaperon is that it implies they are primarily flaps, when in fact the opposite is the case. In comparison elevons function as elevators and ailerons in all phases of flight.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Even more fun is making them up:
- Ruddgearvator - A combined rudder, landing gear and elevator.
- Flapevator - A combined flap and elevator. Delta wings only I guess.
- Propatder - A combined propeller, slat and rudder.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 12): The reason I don't like the term flaperon is that it implies they are primarily flaps, when in fact the opposite is the case. In comparison elevons function as elevators and ailerons in all phases of flight.
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6260 posts, RR: 39 Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13): - Propatder - A combined propeller, slat and rudder.
Can you give me an engineering drawing of that one?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4): Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
This is what makes the airplane bank.
In the traditional sense, that's correct, but nowadays, ailerons have become multifunctional.
I believe the shrunken L1011-500 long range model (only 50 built) was one of the first, if not the very first, commercial aircraft with what Lockheed called "active ailerons" which both moved in the same direction to reduce loads on the wing (the -500's wingspan was about 10 ft. greater than earlier L1011 models).
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17): I believe the shrunken L1011-500 long range model (only 50 built) was one of the first, if not the very first, commercial aircraft with what Lockheed called "active ailerons" which both moved in the same direction to reduce loads on the wing (the -500's wingspan was about 10 ft. greater than earlier L1011 models).
Interesting. I didn't know of the Extended Wings/Active Controls feature on the 500. Previously I only knew of the 500's Direct Lift Control, which was also a state of the art feature.
The L-1011 was truely ahead of its time with those features. Too bad its commercial success (or lack thereof) didn't do it justice.
Ward86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7026 times:
Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Thread starter): after the pilot chooses (in the manual it says 1+F) which means that slats would be deployed with 1st setting of flaps. do the ailerons also tilt downwards a little when 1+F or more is selected?
I believe that when flaps 1 is selected under 210 kias, it is 1+F, over 210 kais, slats only.
SilverComet From Mauritius, joined Apr 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7026 times:
Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 19): I believe that when flaps 1 is selected under 210 kias, it is 1+F, over 210 kais, slats only
It depends. What you say applies only when you select the flaps lever from 2 to 1. When selecting from 0 to 1 the same logic applies but the threshold speed is 100kt.
Furthermore when in config 1+F, as speed increases beyond 210kt, the flap automatically retracts and you end up in config 1. This is to avoid exceeding VFE 1+F (= 215kt).
Ward86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6840 times:
I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais. Maybe we could get SilverComet to confirm.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2452 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6834 times:
Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 22): I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais.
For a 1+F takeoff, the S speed will be displayed, not the F speed. If flaps up is selected with speed less than 215 kts, slats and flaps will retract at the same time.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
SilverComet From Mauritius, joined Apr 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6770 times:
Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 22): I think that as the plane accelerates through the F speed after a 1+F takeoff, and flaps up is selected, the flaps and slats retract simultaneously, assuming this speed is less than 210 kais
Correct, except
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 23): For a 1+F takeoff, the S speed will be displayed, not the F speed
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 23): If flaps up is selected with speed less than 215 kts, slats and flaps will retract at the same time.
You probably meant 210kt.
Quoting SilverComet (Reply 20): Furthermore when in config 1+F, as speed increases beyond 210kt, the flap automatically retracts and you end up in config 1. This is to avoid exceeding VFE 1+F (= 215kt).
Anything above 210kt (and flap lever in the '1' position) and you only have slats. Flaps have already been automatically retracted.
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