Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Could An A/C Captain Perform A Marriage?  
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10228 times:

Well, I think the title says it all Big grin

One of the more obscure provisions of maritime law (upon which many provisions of aviation law are based) is that a captain at sea, in international waters, can perform a marriage.

Obviously, I'd think it would have to be an international flight over international waters, but could an aircraft captain perform such duties?  Smile


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3595 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10236 times:

The answer depends on the country under which the airplane is registered.

For Germany, the answer is no. That is, because a ship captain isn't allowed to do so under German law either.

I think in other countries with more liberal rules on marriage, it might be possible. Generally, the legal status of an airplane captain and the captain of a ship is very similiar.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10234 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
One of the more obscure provisions of maritime law (upon which many provisions of aviation law are based) is that a captain at sea, in international waters, can perform a marriage.

Isn't that a myth... in most cases, anyway? It's all very well performing a marriage in international waters but would it be recognised ashore in many countries? Obviously some Captains may hold the requisite qualifications over and above their Captaincy, of course.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3595 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 2):
Isn't that a myth... in most cases, anyway? It's all very well performing a marriage in international waters but would it be recognised ashore in many countries? Obviously some Captains may hold the requisite qualifications over and above their Captaincy, of course.

This depends on the national law of the country under which flag the ship is sailing. Some countries might allow it, most don't.

What is true, however, is that a captain of airplanes and ships is the police officer on board, so his decisions are to be obeyed by the passengers, and the captain is allowed to arrest persons who don't obey the rules. Of course, his actions must be proportionate.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
One of the more obscure provisions of maritime law (upon which many provisions of aviation law are based) is that a captain at sea, in international waters, can perform a marriage.

I think you'll find very little evidence of this, except in a few places (Japan, and couple must be Japanese?). The Captain can perform a marriage if he has the same requirements as anybody else requires in country whose flag the ship is flying, I believe ... i.e. Judge, JP, Notary, etc.. A Captian being a JP is probably an easy task and common occurrence though.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 3):
a captain of airplanes and ships is the police officer on board, so his decisions are to be obeyed by the passengers, and the captain is allowed to arrest persons who don't obey the rules.

And can police officers conduct marriage ceremonies?  no   Smile

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 3):
This depends on the national law of the country under which flag the ship is sailing. Some countries might allow it, most don't.

Pretty much what I said. However, I don't think we're discussing the same thing. I understand that there might be a few Captains who can conduct weddings but I think it's a myth that there's any "international law" allowing sea Captains to do it.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 5):
understand that there might be a few Captains who can conduct weddings

Correct! The same as there might be a few janitors and bus drivers who can conduct marriages also  Smile


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

No, but they can walk on water.....................

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
For Germany, the answer is no.

Even if it's just ceremonial, like a church wedding?


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

You can apply to be an ordained minister online from the Universal Life Church in a matter of minutes.


"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
like a church wedding

In many countries, the church wedding is not simply ceremonial. My brother got married last month, and we all signed all the legal docs in the church ... it was part of the ceremony. The Minister was the person legally allowed to marry them.

In some countries (Israel being one that I know of), no legal provision is made for civil weddings (i.e., marriages performed in a court).



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 10):
In many countries, the church wedding is not simply ceremonial. My brother got married last month, and we all signed all the legal docs in the church ... it was part of the ceremony. The Minister was the person legally allowed to marry them.

 checkmark  That's how my wife and I's church wedding was...and we even signed our marriage license during the ceremony  Smile



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
...and we even signed our marriage license during the ceremony

Right, but there was probably no requirement for the marriage to be legal except for the officiant being a minister, JP, judge etc., and one or more signatures and possibly a witness. In most states you can become a legal officiant by obtaining a temporary license, valid just for the wedding day. There is usually a 3 day waiting period after applying for the marriage license ... so in 3 days it's not too difficult for anyone to get married in the USA.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 12):
so in 3 days it's not too difficult for anyone to get married in the USA.

So as long as you have a 3-day flight I guess you can do it.....  biggrin   duck 



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
So as long as you have a 3-day flight I guess you can do it.....

LOL ... yes!

You could always get the license before you fly of course  Wink

I guess the bottom line is that the same laws of marriage that apply to a country, also apply in that country's aircraft and ships. There are no different laws that I can find, or anyone else has quoted, that apply to captains of boats or aircaft in 'international' waters or airspace.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):

You could always get the license before you fly of course

Well, if you have that much foresight you can do it before you leave. I think the reason for allowing captains at sea to do it was that on a sea voyage there was plenty of time to cultivate romances, and since the mores of the day frowned on unmarried people engaging in connubial bliss, it was deemed necessary to insure that somebody on board could perform marriages. In aircraft, none of those constraints apply (not even the one about unmarried people, unfortunately.) So the question is really pretty academic. Besides, the TSA (at least as applied to US airlines) might take issue with the captain emerging from the cockpit to perform a wedding in flight. Not only is he now vulnerable, but his exit and entry from the cockpit could be anticipated. It could conceivably be staged to try and take over the aircraft.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
I think the reason for allowing captains at sea to do it was that on a sea voyage

But nobody can find any evidence that is anything but an urban myth .. in fact all evidence found by web searches is to the contrary.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 10):
In many countries, the church wedding is not simply ceremonial.

It was in reference to Germany. AFAIK, a church wedding in Germany is merely something ceremonial, while to make the marriage legally valid, a civil wedding has to be made (correct me if I'm wrong though).


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 16):
But nobody can find any evidence that is anything but an urban myth .. in fact all evidence found by web searches is to the contrary.

Since the time when it was in use (if in fact it ever was) was well before the web, I'm not surprised. You probably would have to resort to looking in books, if anyone remembers what they are.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
Since the time when it was in use (if in fact it ever was) was well before the web, I'm not surprised. You probably would have to resort to looking in books, if anyone remembers what they are.

Aaah, so you can only find information on the web relating to those years after the web came into existence? You learn something every day  Wink

...back to those books .... whatever they might be. I hear they were around before even VCRs !!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
I think the reason for allowing captains at sea to do it was that on a sea voyage there was plenty of time to cultivate romances

Like Bond 007, I just don't think that was ever the case.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 15):
... it was deemed necessary to insure that somebody on board could perform marriages

That I can believe - somebody like a minister, a priest or a registrar who can conduct marriages ashore.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 16):
But nobody can find any evidence that is anything but an urban myth .. in fact all evidence found by web searches is to the contrary.

Since the time when it was in use (if in fact it ever was) was well before the web, I'm not surprised.

But laws are usually pretty well documented.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
You probably would have to resort to looking in books, if anyone remembers what they are.

I have such a backlog of books still to read. Once I've started one, I always enjoy it but it's the getting started that's the problem. I need an electricity outage.  Smile


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3595 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 17):

It was in reference to Germany. AFAIK, a church wedding in Germany is merely something ceremonial, while to make the marriage legally valid, a civil wedding has to be made (correct me if I'm wrong though).

Nothing to correct there. However, if you marry for example in Denmark in a church according to Danish law, Germany accepts it. In Germany, the only legally binding way is a civil wedding.

Quoting David L (Reply 5):

Pretty much what I said. However, I don't think we're discussing the same thing. I understand that there might be a few Captains who can conduct weddings but I think it's a myth that there's any "international law" allowing sea Captains to do it.

Well, international law in fact does give the captain of a ship (and of airplanes) special rights, like for example the right to enforce laws on the ship. But according to international law, the law on a ship is the domestic law of the country where the ship is registered. So only if domestic law allows a captain to perform marriages, he is, in fact, allowed to do so.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

If the Pilot is performing the Marriage ceremony.Make sure a talk on AIDS [Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome] is part of the ceremony  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
If the Pilot is performing the Marriage ceremony.Make sure a talk on AIDS [Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome] is part of the ceremony

 rotfl  Good one, MEL!



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 20):
But laws are usually pretty well documented.

I suspect laws that have fallen into disuse might be difficult to find on the web, hence my previous comment.

Quoting David L (Reply 20):
I have such a backlog of books still to read. Once I've started one, I always enjoy it but it's the getting started that's the problem. I need an electricity outage.

Of course, if Edison hadn't invented the light bulb we'd be stuck watching TV by candlelight.......



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
25 Post contains images David L : I still find it hard to believe that there would be no reference to such a law on the web if it had really existed. Seriously, I think it's just an o
26 Bond007 : Actually there are many references on the web... it's just that they say it IS an old wives tale. Jimbo[Edited 2007-10-07 07:53:36]
27 Post contains images Ex52tech : I have met some airline captains that would think that they could do that............while they were walking on water Now, go easy on me.............
28 Post contains images David L : Ah, fair point - though it would only take one legitimate reference to the existence of such a law to blow those other references apart. And yet we'r
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Could An A/C Captain Perform A Marriage?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
How An Airline Could Lose Money? posted Thu Jul 7 2005 10:35:26 by VS773ER
If You Could Launch An Airline... posted Mon Mar 11 2002 20:51:55 by Flying-Tiger
How Often Does An Airliner Have Tech Problems? posted Sun Sep 23 2007 17:56:51 by LY777
Safety Features Inside An Airliner posted Thu Sep 13 2007 18:50:50 by Stickers
Airline Quiting An Airport. posted Thu Aug 30 2007 14:07:27 by Readytotaxi
Transition From First Officer To Captain posted Mon Aug 13 2007 22:32:35 by Boston92
Aquiring An Instrument Rating posted Tue Jul 24 2007 05:18:32 by HighFlyer9790
Has Anyone Actually Stolen An Airplane From An Air posted Sat Jul 21 2007 21:15:23 by Readytotaxi
Could A318 Do LCY-LGA? posted Fri Jul 13 2007 01:22:11 by Tiago701
Dont Aircraft Controls Have An Error Overide? posted Tue Jul 3 2007 22:18:43 by NEMA
If You Lowered An A320 Wing, Could A LD3 In It? posted Sun Jan 10 2010 19:28:54 by 747400sp
How An Airline Could Lose Money? posted Thu Jul 7 2005 10:35:26 by VS773ER
If You Could Launch An Airline... posted Mon Mar 11 2002 20:51:55 by Flying-Tiger
Turn A343 Into An A333? posted Mon Dec 12 2011 14:52:32 by my235
Trying To Decode An Acars Message posted Tue Nov 22 2011 16:42:09 by trigged

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format