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747 Landing Speeds (No Flaps)  
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1986 posts, RR: 6
Posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

Hey guys,

I was having a quick chat with a buddy and talking about different approach speeds with various a/c and the 747 came up with a touch down in and around 150ish. Anyhow we do know that because of the sweep back and higher speed design in this wing, they need lots of flaps. If you loose your flaps in a 747 whats the stall speed/approach speed you would use (rough speeds I dont care about a 5 not difference due to extra weight, just a typical landing weight).


Keep the shinny side up!
6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10795 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

According to B747Skipper, Vref in a 747 at maximum landing weight (287,000 kg) with zero flaps is 223 Kias...

2H4




Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAirportSeven From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10788 times:

I'll have to do some digging to come up with a source, but I remember reading that there is no published no flaps landing speed for the 747 because the flaps are gravity driven for the first notch or so, and that the touchdown speeds with no flaps would blow out all the tires on the main landing gear.

Found it:

"Few airlines offer their pilots procedures for flaps-up landings in a 747, according to one pilot. Their manuals, however, provide data allowing crews to determine how much runway will be needed. They know what to expect: The aircraft will approach as slowly as possible, but will still be faster than the design limit for the tires. Most of the tires will fail during the touchdown. One airline has pilots practice making no-flaps approaches, but the training is never carried through to touchdown.

Given the available backup systems on board, it is unlikely a 747's flaps would ever fail to come down. For example, there are ways to substitute the use of electric motors for lost hydraulic power. In addition, when alternate flap-control measures are used, all leading edge flaps extend simultaneously as soon as the flap handle is moved from its Up detent. That lowers stall speeds by 20 knots and approach speeds, while still faster than normal, are then within tire limits."


"The Flap About Flaps", Alton K. Marsh. AOPA Pilot Magazine, August 2004.

[Edited 2007-10-26 15:18:52]

User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1986 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

Thanks guys! And this is my 1000 post on A.net!!!


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10675 times:

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 3):
Thanks guys! And this is my 1000 post on A.net!!!

Come back when at the 10k mark.  Wink

Kidding. Congrats!



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

Taken from the 744 FCTM (Flight Crew Training Manual)

All Flaps Up Landing
The probability of both leading and trailing edge devices failing to extend is
extremely remote. System reliability and design have reduced the need
for some traditional non-normal landing procedures. As a result, an all
flaps up landing NNC was not required for airplane certification and does
not appear in the Airplane Flight Manual or in the QRH.


User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1986 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10550 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):

Yea, well I mean at least I did not start my own thread in non-av about the 1000 Mark like some people do.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 5):

Thanks for that!

Anyone know what the 747 stalls at clean at MTOW?? Just for fun?



Keep the shinny side up!
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