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Blue Angels G-Suits/Masks?  
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Why don't the Blue Angels wear G-suits and masks?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBravoGolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Restricts their movements too much.

User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Reason for not wearing G-suits seems to be the fact that the inflation of the legpart (don't know the correct word) might hit the stick, which is not something you want when you are flying that precise.

Apart from that it's probably has a show element as well.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
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Quoting LMML 14/32 (Thread starter):
Why don't the Blue Angels wear G-suits and masks?

It's because they're just that hardcore. Like Chuck Norris, only with afterburners.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

In addition to the above, a brief search tells me that most of their maneuvers don't exceed 4G or so.

A physically fit and correctly-trained person can repeatedly withstand that sort of force without augmentation.

I'm not speaking as an expert by any means, but formation displays take their dramatic effect from their precision in close proximity to one another.

Having said that, make no mistake that those gentlemen are athletes of the first water, at the top of their game. I certainly know what a continuous 4G feels like. It feels like your teeth want to come out of your head.



On a side note, you may be interested to know that forces in excess of 5G are not unheard of in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical - and they have to rely on breathing exercises and clenching their butt jut like the Blue Angels do.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineChksix From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 345 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4479 times:

The solos 5&6 are pulling max g during their passes. Extra hardcore Big grin


The conveyor belt plane will fly
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
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Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical - and they have to rely on breathing exercises and clenching their butt jut like the Blue Angels do.

While I greatly respect F1 and the drivers, the effects of lateral Gs are nowhere near as pronounced as vertical Gs. 5 Lateral Gs is certainly no walk in the park, but at the same time, blood isn't getting sucked down out of your skull. All else being equal, vertical Gs will knock you unconscious long before lateral Gs will.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
While I greatly respect F1 and the drivers, the effects of lateral Gs are nowhere near as pronounced as vertical Gs

I knew I shouldn't have included that factiod, because it detracts from the rest of the post.

That's not a dig at you, because you make a good point. I was careful to emphasise that they were lateral forces and I know YOU know that, but I hoped that the message wouldn't be lost on the casual observer. Re-reading it says that it might be.

So there you are, folks - too many beans spoils the chili.  Wink


Incidentally, I originally included a quote from a F1 Reno flyer, (as opposed a to a warbird racer). He said;

"Four G?!?! Hell I'll trade them 4G in a heartbeat".

I thought it was a good comparison. Then I realised that the birds they fly pull 8G in every turn - and they don't wear G-suits either!



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4458 times:
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Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
So there you are, folks - too many beans spoils the chili.

Sorry about that....I like the chili, and certainly didn't mean to spoil it.  Smile

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 7):
Incidentally, I originally included a quote from a F1 Reno flyer, (as opposed a to a warbird racer). He said;

"Four G?!?! Hell I'll trade them 4G in a heartbeat".

That's a great quote.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
Sorry about that....I like the chili, and certainly didn't mean to spoil it.

Hell, no. Some writers get sniffy, some realise that positive criticism improves the writing. Me, appreciate the insight.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
That's a great quote.

He was a really nice guy. Typical happy-to-talk, interesting, laid-back Yeager type (or at least the way I imagine General Yeager to be from his writings - I've never met him).

Funny enough, there's about dozen or so of y'all here that are like that.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineJoness0154 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 9):
He was a really nice guy. Typical happy-to-talk, interesting, laid-back Yeager type (or at least the way I imagine General Yeager to be from his writings - I've never met him).

Well Yeager is about as stuck up as they get. I lost more respect for him when he said the things he did regarding Crossfield.



I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):
forces in excess of 5G are not unheard of in Formula 1 - though obviously they are lateral, not vertical -

You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?


User currently offlineChksix From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 345 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

They have a lot of downforce so high speed curves yield up to 5 g. Need strong neck muscles to drive F1.

[Edited 2007-11-03 13:57:57]


The conveyor belt plane will fly
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Because they fly with full nose down trim (approx. 40 ft/lbs of forward force) on the stick and use their right leg to brace their right forearm. Stick movements are very slight using essentially just your wrist. If they were using an anti-g suit, the inflation would cause potential stick movement and possible multi-plane mishap. By not using anti-g suits, they remove the variables associated with the anti-g suit system: different inflation times, different quantity of inflation,different deflation rates, different lengths of time of inflation, etc., etc., etc. Simply put, it is MUCH MUCH SAFER to fly demonstrations & practices without the anti-g suits. Same reason given for not wearing an O2 mask during demonstrations/practices... it is one less variable that could cause a mishap.


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User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4374 times:
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Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6):
All else being equal, vertical Gs will knock you unconscious long before lateral Gs will.

As the ChampCar series found on the high banking at Texas Int Speedway(I think) a few years back when the vert G forces produced by their speed in the turns caused a form of GLOC familiar to many in the fast jet community and the race was abandoned.

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4373 times:
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Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14):
As the ChampCar series found on the high banking at Texas Int Speedway(I think) a few years back when the vert G forces produced by their speed in the turns caused a form of GLOC familiar to many in the fast jet community and the race was abandoned.

Interesting point. I didn't think of banked turns.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

If you're doing 200 miles/hour, to get 5 g's you'd have to be curving around a circular arc of 535-foot radius. Is that what ChampCars or F1 do?

And such a turn would always be steeply banked, wouldn't it? Nowhere near 5 g's parallel to the pavement?


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9495 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4263 times:

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 4):

In addition to the above, a brief search tells me that most of their maneuvers don't exceed 4G or so.

The higest G move made is 8Gs, which is a high speed horizontal pass where the imediately go to vertical and climb to 8,000ft. The number 5 and 6 pilots perform this move.

Also, 4G's is common on large roller coasters. It's about the max G load that any roller coaster will have.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16994 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 11):

You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?



Quoting Timz (Reply 16):
And such a turn would always be steeply banked, wouldn't it? Nowhere near 5 g's parallel to the pavement?

F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement. Downforce is enormous (two tons or so IIRC) and presses the car down very hard, enhancing grip. If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Quoting Timz:
You're talking about F1 racing cars? With tires capable of exerting 5 g's laterally-- parallel to the pavement?



Quoting Starlionblue:
F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement.

Starlion is correct. A good example of a track where such high-G turns are common would be Suzuka. 6G is, apparently, not unheard of in turn 130-R.

But I've gone off-topic again!

Quoting RoseFlyer:
The higest G move made is 8Gs, which is a high speed horizontal pass where the imediately go to vertical and climb to 8,000ft. The number 5 and 6 pilots perform this move.

Thank you Rose. I had something like that in mind for the higher G manoeuvres, with 4G being about the limit at, say, the bottom of a normal loop.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.

keep in mind that when your speed goes down the G-forces reduce as well.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineEmel From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
F1 turns typically are not banked, or only very slightly. It IS 5 Gs parallel to the pavement. Downforce is enormous (two tons or so IIRC) and presses the car down very hard, enhancing grip. If they take a turn too slowly they would fly off the track since there would not be enough downforce to keep the tires planted.

Not quite correct, I'm glad to say.

If the car suddenly loses it's downforce during or approaching a turn, usually due to a breakage of the front wing or loss of the rear airofoil, the tyres would lose their cohesion with with the track surface.

However, the cars are set up to maintain a certain level of grip dependant on the race track, and it's all a matter of compromises; fast tracks (such as Monza in Italy) they run the cars in low downforce trim to maximise top speed performance, and at low speed circuits (like Monaco) where high speeds are not of great importance, they will set the car up with maximum downforce to maintain grip in the tight corners.

The cars can move along and negotiate corners almost on tick-over nowadays (modern engine technology), and the drivers do this nowadays (in Formula 1) to preserve fuel and pick up rubber from the track on the slowing down lap at the end of the race. This is to try to ensure the cars meet their minimum weight requirements during post-race scutineering and why you will never see a winning driver do doughnuts or burn-outs to celebrate - every gram or ounce is ultra critical.

Sorry for being off topic.

[Edited 2007-11-05 01:39:42]

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16994 posts, RR: 67
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 20):
keep in mind that when your speed goes down the G-forces reduce as well.

Sure, but AFAIK there's a "sweet spot" of sorts where slower equals going off the road and faster equals staying on the road.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 17):
The higest G move made is 8Gs

7.5 to be exact. That's the Hornet's limit and is limited by the FCS...


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