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Frost Forming In The Cabin Of Ryanair Flight  
User currently offlineMAN23R From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 256 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4622 times:

Evening everyone,

I want to comment on the experience i had on my flight from BUD to LPL (738 flt no 4233) yesterday evening, We departed approx 20:00h local time. Our flight was delayed about 15 minutes due to two passengers being late, once the straddlers where onboard the crew shut the doors, we then started a much needed deicing procedure.

Anyway, we where about half way through our flight (-40 OAT), when i saw what i thought was a sticker on the panel just under the window line (sat centre of the right wing, behind the exit), i touched it as i was curious to what it was, it was definatly frost forming. I glanced over to the seat in front to see if it was the same and it was, but much worse. I didnt call the FA as i wasnt sure if they're was something wrong.

As a side note, i want to thank the crew for a great landing, was extremly windy, just about managed to land the plane

Hopefully someone could shed some light on this.

PS. the frost was about 2 inch by 10 inch on eash panel

scott

[Edited 2007-12-10 10:21:26]

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4471 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

That is not good. I'm sure the crew must have known. That is not something you just don't pay attention to, especially if you deiced prior to departure.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4412 times:

Cryanair must be billing 50 cents to pax for heating system: since most pax don't buy the option, ice is forming in the cabin....or else, they cashed the heating tax and turned the onboard heating computer to minimum to save even more money  Yeah sure  bored 


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User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6540 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4325 times:

Frost is very common on windows and their surroundings. Especially when pax board long time before departure to the dryer air high up, They may exhale gallons of water just from breathing before you start.

Dew may have been there already before take off, and then you climb into minus 50 degrees C. And there are plenty of heat bridges.

Except for the view out of the window it is an advantage. If the frost is not there, then it is because the air is extremely dry which is not comfortable, especially not on long range flights.

On new airliner types such as the Boeing 787 the air-conditioning system will add water to the cabin air for comfort reasons. That is possible since the cabin structure is made of carbon fibre composites which unlike aluminum does not corrode when exposed to moisture.

On present day planes the relative humidity may get as low as 10% during a long flight. Most comfortable level would be roughly 50%, but I doubt that Boeing is planning on such a high level, my guess would be in the 25-30% region. 50% would mean that the plane would have to carry a substantial amount of water for an intercontinental flight, and it would also mean massive ice buildup on windows etc.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4125 times:



Quoting MAN23R (Thread starter):
just about managed to land the plane

Well, glad you survived.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Window exits and the seats right near them can get VERY cold on the 737 and 757. You feel cold air blowing in at your feet sometimes. Never seen frost forming on the inside of the window, but have seen crystals on the inside of the plexiglass.

I also see water drop out of the door seals when it's very warm and humid outside and then pressurize the cabin.

On Airbus and MD narrowbodies, instead of this phenomenon, there's the clouds of condensation that pour out of the A/C system during pressurization in warm climates. For some reason the Boeing system doesn't do this much if at all, but the MD80s do it dramatically, and the A320s do it as well in my experience.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5454 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4018 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
but the MD80s do it dramatically, and the A320s do it as well in my experience.

Yep ... the E170s actually snow out of the vents (not the personal vents), under the right conditions. We were taxying yesterday at DCA, and it was quite a holiday experience!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3938 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
On Airbus and MD narrowbodies, instead of this phenomenon, there's the clouds of condensation that pour out of the A/C system during pressurization in warm climates. For some reason the Boeing system doesn't do this much if at all, but the MD80s do it dramatically, and the A320s do it as well in my experience.

Yep, I've had a steam bath on an A320 JJ in Rio de Janeiro and rain falling from the ceiling of a 777 upon opening the cabin doors in MXP. Oh well, just a few drops then.


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1665 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3893 times:
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One time I was on a TWA 757 sitting in an exit row just aft of the coach lavs, on TWA’s 757’s they did not have over wing emergency exits like most other 757’s they had a slightly smaller exit door aft of the wing.

I was sitting in a window seat and placed a ½ cup of water in a plastic cup on the floor next to the door. When I picked it up about 15 minutes later, the water was frozen from the outside air. Even though the cabin is pressurized and air will be pushed out through any opening in the fuselage, there was enough cold air at the door seal to freeze the water in the cup


User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3844 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
On Airbus and MD narrowbodies, instead of this phenomenon, there's the clouds of condensation that pour out of the A/C system during pressurization in warm climates. For some reason the Boeing system doesn't do this much if at all, but the MD80s do it dramatically, and the A320s do it as well in my experience.

I've noticed this several times in both FL and HA 717s.



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3638 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 7):
and rain falling from the ceiling of a 777 upon opening the cabin doors in MXP.

That's not quite the same thing. That's just a rush of super warm and humid air into a dry and cool cabin. That would happen just about anywhere if there's somewhere to condense.

But the A/C system on the MDs and the Airbus narrowbodies spew out clouds for many minutes on a routine basis. The Boeing design must have a place to collect the condensate rather than spewing it back into the cabin, because I don't see it on the Boeing jets, or if it happens, it's very, very minor on a very, very hot and humid day.

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 9):
I've noticed this several times in both FL and HA 717s.

Yep, I thought they would have solved it by the time the 717 rolled out, but I saw it on HA as well. And as someone pointed out, the E-Jets and ERJs can do it too, but I've never seen it as bad as on the DC9/MD80/MD90/717 series aircraft. It's a "design feature" that is "within spec" I suppose. But it can be confusing to pax.

And the ERJs are just horribly under A/C'd anyway. They can't keep cool on the ground even on cool days due to the oven effect of the sun on the metal skin, and have trouble keeping warm in the air. I had an interesting trip from MHT to EWR on one, where even though it was 45 degrees outside in New Hampshire, we were baking inside the ERJ until takeoff, then freezing all the way into EWR. Fun times... but no frost on the windows!  Smile



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Quoting MAN23R (Thread starter):

Hopefully someone could shed some light on this.

It's pretty normal. Especially near an exit row, because there's a bunch of extra structure behind the sidewall to support the exit, which provides a heat bridge to the (very cold) skin.

Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 1):
That is not good. I'm sure the crew must have known. That is not something you just don't pay attention to, especially if you deiced prior to departure.

Deicing has nothing to do with frost inside the plane. Likewise, frost inside the plane isn't a concern to the crew except from a passenger comfort point-of-view.

Tom.

[Edited 2007-12-10 17:42:50]

User currently offlineJamie757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

This would do better in the Tech/Ops forum, I remember a thread on this previously. From what I remember, the cause is simply the removal or slippage of insulation material behind the panel.

Here we go.... Frost Build Up Inside An Airplane.. (by Slashd0t Aug 10 2005 in Tech Ops)

 Smile

Rgds.


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