Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Was The DC-3 Cockpit So Leaky?  
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6420 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7399 times:

Once again, the thread title should say it all  Smile

In my various readings on flying the DC-3, one thing in particular stands out: why did the DC-3's cockpit apparently leak like a sieve?

When it was raining outside, you'd better don the rain gear inside  raincloud 

I wonder if RF burns and minor shocks were the norm since most of these guys also used vacuum-tube radios  scratchchin 


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17076 posts, RR: 66
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

Well, for starters the DC-3 wasn't pressurized so a perfect seal wasn't necessary. I would also imagine that the tolerances required for a good rain seal were a bit too expensive to be economically viable.

How does the DC-3 compare to other 1930s designs in this regard?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7182 times:

Where was the Leaking Areas on this Unpressurised Champ.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9525 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7117 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
How does the DC-3 compare to other 1930s designs in this regard?

My thoughts, too. Perhaps the DC-3 only suffers comparison to modern designs because it's one of the very few to last long enough.

I remember an RAF pilot describing the Shackleton as being "semi-pressurised - in other words, it's got more holes in the front that at the back".  Smile


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7102 times:

DC-3's leaked in several areas, most notable were the windshield and DV window areas, due to poor sealing.
Just the way it was....


User currently offlineMetroliner From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 1067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7062 times:

I can't imagine the build quality on those Daks, when they were built in the numbers (or should I say 'hordes') they were, would have stretched to ensuring the windows sealed correctly. The most important thing was that it flew, was built like a tank, and just generally ruled the skies for forty-odd years... (no exaggeration there) Big grin

Toni



Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7062 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I wonder if the Basler BT-67s are similarly leaky...

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6744 times:



Quoting 411A (Reply 4):
DC-3's leaked in several areas, most notable were the windshield and DV window areas, due to poor sealing.
Just the way it was....

Was there Electronics Malfunctions due to these leaks.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6699 times:

They leak because they are 60 years old, and because they were built by Douglas.

To let history live on, the DC-9 and MD-80 series still has the same problem. Have paper towels standing by during deicing!

Despite this minor drawback, I still love Douglas products.  yes 


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6691 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
They leak because they are 60 years old, and because they were built by Douglas.

Ernie Gann was writing about leaky cockpits in the DC-2 and DC-3 from his first officer days at AA in the mid to late 1930's, I doubt it's just age  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6653 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
They leak because they are 60 years old

You mean they were built in old times & not airframe is now 60 yrs old & has started leaking  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6630 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):


Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
They leak because they are 60 years old, and because they were built by Douglas.

Ernie Gann was writing about leaky cockpits in the DC-2 and DC-3 from his first officer days at AA in the mid to late 1930's, I doubt it's just age



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
They leak because they are 60 years old

You mean they were built in old times & not airframe is now 60 yrs old & has started leaking
regds
MEL

They're great planes, and they build character!  cheerful 


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6603 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Was there Electronics Malfunctions due to these leaks.

Generally no, not in my experience...just the pilots got...ah, damp.

Although I did have all the radios quit one time, but that was in bright sunshine, with no rain in sight.
Go figure..


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1655 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

The DC-3 cockpit is leaky to let the water run out.

User currently offlineBuzz From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 697 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Hi MEL, and KELPKid, Buzz here. I have a little practice regarding how DC-3's are put together, used to Crew Chief one or two.
The nose has a unique hatch, it opens upward like the hood of a car. Yes, there's a foam tape we put in the gap. I haven't flown one in the rain so I don't know exactly where it leaks.
There's a snap-in curtain on many DC-3's that's just forward of the instrument panel, I don't know if it's to keep the drafts away from the pilot's feet and knees... or to make the rain flow outward to the sidewalls.

MEL, the radios on a DC-3 were often in a rack aft of the cockpit... 1940's radios were large. But modern radios are smaller, lots of people mount them on the instrument panel. And since not many people fly a DC-3 through wet weather for fun, I guess we won't know if that set-up has radio problems in the rain. (Most of the DC-3 flying I know of is for fun on VFR days).

Windshield leaks... I suppose so. When parked, N84KB, and NC18121 didn't leak in the rain here in this damp part of the world. But we didn't plow through rain either.
Oh yes, both the DC-3's I used to play with had 1 piece windshields. Remember there was a 2 section windshield, you could hinge the outboard section open to see for landing... after you had covered it with ice. I haven't dealt with that kind... more areas to leak.

g'day


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6517 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 13):
The DC-3 cockpit is leaky to let the water run out.

The DC-9 works the same way!  Smile

Happy New Year!


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14091 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6476 times:

Are you sure that the Land Rovers were not designed by the same people?
 Wink

Jan


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6471 times:

I guess the biggest difference and reason for leaky DC2's and 3's(and infect all other a/c from that period) is the lack of a pressure cabin which is the best way to keep water out.
Also everything was still riveted rather then glued together.

Problem area's.
http://www.honders.net/tmp/DC2_NC39165_MG_2973.jpg

- "The hood" located right above the lights is not really a problem, there is a watertight seal(like a blanket) underneath and if water comes in it will leave just as quickly via the bottom.
- The square hatch located on top of the cockpit(emergency exit) does leak, a fair amount of DC4(which in this case is not an a/c but a silicon based grease also known as MS4) all around before every flight does miracles though.
- The sliding windows leak depending the wind direction, one crew member is lucky the other one is not  Smile
- Emergency exit's in the cabin are not like today going inwards but outwards which means they are not flush with the fuselage and thus leak.
- Further water can come from anywhere, a cracked beacon light lens hood, a warn out rivet just anything and without pressurized cabin there is nothing to stop it.
All in all it is not that bad either though, water comes in and leaves thru the bottom because it is just as well...... ehh well ventilated  Wink

If you approach weather like this:
http://www.honders.net/tmp/DC2_NC39165_MG_3993v.jpg
You have 2 options
1. Run like hell in the other direction.
2. Get out the old swimming suit and start running around with rolls of tissue paper.
I personally opt for the last just for the fun of it Big grin

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Was there Electronics Malfunctions due to these leaks.

It's just a matter of using common sense really.
We removed all 115V systems including the inverters, left with just a 24V bus there is no problem in that area.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31692 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 6466 times:



Quoting 411A (Reply 12):
Generally no, not in my experience...just the pilots got...ah, damp.

Although I did have all the radios quit one time, but that was in bright sunshine, with no rain in sight.
Go figure..



Quoting Buzz (Reply 14):
MEL, the radios on a DC-3 were often in a rack aft of the cockpit...


Its Important to have a Shield in place to avoid Water contacting those Electronics.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Why Was The DC-3 Cockpit So Leaky?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Is The PW JT8D So Loud? posted Mon Nov 14 2005 20:14:49 by AirWillie6475
Was The DC-8-62/-63 Quieter Than The 707-320B/C? posted Thu Oct 20 2005 00:52:19 by Happy-flier
Why Is The Vert Stab So Small On 787? posted Fri May 6 2005 00:20:03 by Lemurs
Why Were The DC-10 Wings Slightly Slanted Down...? posted Fri Aug 22 2003 18:45:53 by Chicago757
Why Was The Fore TE Flap Scrapped In The Ngs posted Tue Jun 10 2003 13:21:16 by HAWK21M
732: Why Is The Front Right Door So Hard? posted Sun Jul 22 2007 21:02:05 by CanadianNorth
Why Did The L-1011's Brakes Overheat So Easily? posted Sat Feb 17 2007 00:53:06 by Blackbird
Why Are The TF-39 On C-5 Galaxy So Loud? posted Tue Aug 1 2006 18:02:08 by 747400sp
What Was The Range Of The DC-8-62? posted Sun Oct 30 2005 03:01:05 by AmericanB763ER
Why Do Cargo Airlines Like The MD-11 So Much? posted Sun Mar 7 2004 12:09:49 by Mozart

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format