Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Who's In Trouble After This Incident?  
User currently offlineKris From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

The guy who parked the truck, the controller or the pilot?

http://www.break.com/index/airplane-knocks-over-truck.html

[Edited 2007-12-27 16:25:38]

82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Looks like the truck was parked behind the line, so I'd say the pilot is at fault. Pretty much the pilot would be at fault no matter how the truck is parked, since he is in control of the aircraft.

User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Looks to me like the truck was about half a meter outside the line.
Let's remember where we're talking about. In Africa it's almost never the pilot's fault.

 Smile



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Gotta love the guys just standing around yapping afterwards...

[Edited 2007-12-27 17:21:09]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4855 times:



Quoting Kris (Thread starter):
The guy who parked the truck, the controller or the pilot?

The truck driver is at fault if he was over the line. The pilot is responsible regardless. The controller is blameless unless he could actually see that there was an interference problem (unlikely).

Tom.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4758 times:


Airplane Knocks Over Truck - Watch more free videos

00:23
Looks like the Aircraft was not on the line.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4752 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
Looks like the Aircraft was not on the line.

Even if we assume that, I must go with Tdscanuck and say the pilot is not blameless. It's a bit like driving a car and finding a shopping trolley in the middle of the road. Do you sideswipe it or try to go around it? If you do sideswipe it, can you then bill whoever illegally parked the trolley in the road for the damage to your car?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4631 times:

The pilot. He also should have stopped after he hit the truck. I am surprised he didn't hit the other truck. By the way, if it is so tight there why wasn't someone marshaling the plane?

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

What about the ramp folks marshalling in the aircraft? They deserve some of the blame too. That's why we have what we call: WING WALKERS.....that prevents stuff like this from happening. From the video, I saw no wing walkers. Thats a  redflag  100%. Is this Menzies?!  rotfl   wink 


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6676 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4594 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 4):
The truck driver is at fault if he was over the line. The pilot is responsible regardless. The controller is blameless unless he could actually see that there was an interference problem (unlikely).

 checkmark 

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
From the video, I saw no wing walkers.

Since when do commercial airports have wing walkers? I have never seen any. The pilot is supposed to know where all parts of his plane is and avoid any obstacles. Even if the truck was slightly over the line (as it appears to be) the pilot shouldn't have cut it that close, and should have seen that it was over the line and maneuvered accordingly. If a pedestrian is jaywalking it does not justify my hitting him with my car.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4591 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 9):
If a pedestrian is jaywalking it does not justify my hitting him with my car.

Only if said jaywalker is giving you the finger.  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8414 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 2):
In Africa it's almost never the pilot's fault.

I'm sure that will comfort the captain of the 346 that ran into the sand at CPT.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6676 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4540 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 10):
Only if said jaywalker is giving you the finger.

So will you pay my legal expenses when I use you as an authority on this? Big grin



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4491 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):

00:23
Looks like the Aircraft was not on the line.

I think you meant to say:
00:28
Looks like the truck was OVER the line.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6264 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

And if I were SAA, I'd be on a witch hunt for the passenger who was violating the rules by running a camera during and after landing  Wink

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 13):

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):

00:23
Looks like the Aircraft was not on the line.

I think you meant to say:
00:28
Looks like the truck was OVER the line.

Sounds like an airport issue. If trucks and 737's are in such close proximity that this could even reomtely be an issue, maybe they need to re-think where they park the trucks...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4490 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Sounds like an airport issue. If trucks and 737's are in such close proximity that this could even reomtely be an issue, maybe they need to re-think where they park the trucks...

I agree completely. No where other than South Africa have I seen such an idea to put empty trucks next to an area with high winds.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4466 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
If you do sideswipe it, can you then bill whoever illegally parked the trolley in the road for the damage to your car

The Pilot would never know,as during Taxiing he's following the Line.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
I saw no wing walkers

On Taxing Aircraft,unless theres a doubt,why would a wing walker be present.I guess it was faroff from the stand too.

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 13):
I think you meant to say:
00:28
Looks like the truck was OVER the line.

After the collosion it did move slightly over,No equipment would fall in exact the same location  Smile

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
And if I were SAA, I'd be on a witch hunt for the passenger who was violating the rules by running a camera during and after landing

Why is it illegal.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4457 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):

After the collosion it did move slightly over,No equipment would fall in exact the same location

Look at the tires on back at :22 and :28. They are in the same spot in comparison to the carts on the left side of the trailer. To see what I mean, end the video and click on the timebar to get to those points. Also at :28 you'll see the trailer is now at a slight angle in the direction of the travel of the aircraft. The trailer actually pushed farther towards the line (safe side) after being struck.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6264 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
And if I were SAA, I'd be on a witch hunt for the passenger who was violating the rules by running a camera during and after landing

Why is it illegal.

regds
MEL

Well, here in the 'states, it's illegal (electronic equipment being operated during landing and before shutdown is a no-no, as is ignoring directions from crew members, who specifically instruct you as a passenger to discontinue usage of all portable electronic equipment before final descent). I can't speak for other localities, but I'm sure that airlines have blanket rules that cover these situations.

It's legal if you're a private pilot, it's on board the aircraft that you're piloting, and you, as PIC, have taken "reasonable" precautions to ensure that the electronic device being used will not cause harmul interference. I won't delve too much deeper into that, as we have had ad nauseum conversations in tech ops about camera usage in-flight  Smile



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Out here no restrictions on Photography in flight.

On the Video.....I find it difficult to believe that clearence between taxi markings & equipment staging areas to be a few inches.it would normally be 2-3 feet.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6264 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4337 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
Out here no restrictions on Photography in flight.

It's not really a restriction on photography, it's a restriction on portable electronic device usage  Smile

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
I find it difficult to believe that clearence between taxi markings & equipment staging areas to be a few inches.it would normally be 2-3 feet.

It is my opinion that even 2-3 feet isn't enough when you're trying to maintain clearance between trucks and airplanes  Sad



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

No Christmas bonuses this year!

User currently offlineKris From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Can open, worms everywhere.....

How much would that little dent cost to fix???


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4245 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 9):
Since when do commercial airports have wing walkers? I have never seen any.

What rock have you been under?! Every airport I have flown in has had wing walkers when an aircraft arrives at the gate AND at pushback.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
why would a wing walker be present

For obvious reasons...to make sure the wings are cleared while taxiing into the gate.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
And if I were SAA, I'd be on a witch hunt for the passenger who was violating the rules by running a camera during and after landing

Why is it illegal.

I was wondering the same thing....

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
Well, here in the 'states, it's illegal (electronic equipment being operated during landing and before shutdown is a no-no, as is ignoring directions from crew members, who specifically instruct you as a passenger to discontinue usage of all portable electronic equipment before final descent).

That's not exactly true......  wink 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4229 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
And if I were SAA, I'd be on a witch hunt for the passenger who was violating the rules by running a camera during and after landing

Why is it illegal.

Illegal to use electronics during take-off, landing and taxi in the US (the exception normally being cell phones after landing). More to the point a camera can become quite a dangerous projectile if there is sudden braking or a sudden jolt. Ironic considering the circumstances.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 9):
Since when do commercial airports have wing walkers? I have never seen any.

What rock have you been under?! Every airport I have flown in has had wing walkers when an aircraft arrives at the gate AND at pushback.

Well, in the US...



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
25 AirframeAS : Yes, in the U.S.....and it's a smart thing to have.
26 Analog : I find the projectile rationale to be a bit flawed, as non-electronic devices are perfectly capable of acting as projectiles. If reading the 10 Comma
27 Starlionblue : Maybe so. But why don't airports around the world constantly have these kinds of incidents even without wing walkers? I would tend to agree, even if
28 Post contains images KELPkid : Okay, I'll bite the hook here What's the catch?
29 Analog : I was thinking about the original documents delivered by Moses delivery, inc. (guaranteed delivery within 40 business years).
30 Tdscanuck : Winglet repairs are difficult, at best. Cheapest way out would be to replace the winglet and then have the damaged one overhauled...probably in the $
31 HAWK21M : No such restriction out here. About Wing walkers.Why would they be a wing walker on the Taxi track.A Wingwalker would be present nearer to the Stand.
32 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : Just go to www.flightlevel350.com and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I assumed that the aircraft was right on the path to the gate, hence
33 Silver1SWA : I have never seen, or heard of wing-walkers meeting a plane at the end of the runway to escort them all the way to the gate.
34 CosmicCruiser : Wing walkers meet the plane in the gate area and are especially important in congested ramps. Judging from where this jet parked and where the turned
35 Analog : Why not use fancier version of car parking/cruise control aids (ultrasonic, MMW radar, lidar, remote cameras, etc.)? For several reasons, including r
36 HAWK21M : Equipment staging area is not necessary near the Gate/Stand.I thought the Aircraft wingtip so near the Staging area was indication of something not r
37 Post contains images KELPkid : The fact remains, however, that either the FAR's, the airlines, or both officially ban portable electronic usage by normal, joe blow passengers durin
38 Post contains images AirframeAS : That is not what I said. I said wing walkers AT the gate WHEN the aircraft arrives....again, AT THE GATE. The plane in the video very well could have
39 Andz : This incident happened in Zambia. I am pretty sure there are no gates to dock at at Lusaka.
40 HAWK21M : Looks like the Wingtip would need replacement. Personally I was surprised the Pilot did not stop after the Impact. regds MEL
41 Starlionblue : Actually the cost of labor in the US is comparatively low when compared to, say Western Europe. That's why automation is so much more widespread in E
42 AirframeAS : Work with me, dude...work with me: Gates and stands...same thing. You get the idea..... That is exactly why I assumed that the plane was already in t
43 Mandala499 : I've been a wingwalker before... more like a wing guardsman! LOL... Google earth the airport, and U'll start wondering about the pilot and the marsha
44 HAWK21M : You think The Crew may have not felt the Impact. regds MEL
45 AirframeAS : I am glad you see my point and agree, thank you. Actually, when an aircraft is being marshalled into a gate/stand, the pilots are FOCUSED on the mars
46 CosmicCruiser : I find that hard to believe judging from the impact shown by the camera. of course they had to have felt it. Actually I can say the capt. (pilot stee
47 Mandala499 : Now, the way I saw it, he moved the camera because he saw an impact was imminent... A few people gasped... but if it was really felt as a shudder ins
48 AirframeAS : On a 732, no you can't. The wing is too short. If you smear your face against the cockpit windows, you might be able to see very little of the wingti
49 HAWK21M : If one looks from the Extreme outboard corner of #2 Window,the Wingtip is visible.Our crew keep a cross check when lining up with the bay/stand/gate
50 AirframeAS : With the window open, yes, I would then agree with you 100%
51 Speedbird128 : Why not use his eyeballs. Hell - didn't he notice his environment when he taxiid onto the apron? And for those obsessed about wingwalkers etc etc - t
52 HAWK21M : no With the #2 Window closed & locked. regds MEL
53 Analog : Well, the same logic works for drivers parking their cars. Obviously commercial pilots are, on average, a more competent bunch than the average drive
54 AirframeAS : No, you can't...period. Not on a classic 737. On a 737NG, maybe....
55 Post contains links Vxg : There was another version of this thread in the Civil Aviation forum where I posted the taxi track superimposed on the Google image of the ramp in Lus
56 Mandala499 : VxG, There's only 1 correction to be made IMHO on that superimposed taxying path... that is the aircraft ended up not as per you indicated... but a fe
57 Vxg : Mandala - you're right, thanks for that. In fact if you look closely you can see that the normal parking spot for the 3rd stand is indeed a little fur
58 Mandala499 : VxG, Nurries... I think the parking spots have adequate clearance for widebody aircraft... provided they're all parked either on the actual stand's no
59 Post contains links Vxg : Mandala - great post & thanks for the detailed explanations. I found this document on the Boeing site - http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acap
60 Mandala499 : Well, the documents are called the airport compatibility documents aren't they? Hence... You already nailed the coffin... You need me to cling wrap i
61 HAWK21M : I'm still Wondering if the crew did not stop after the collision was deliberate. regds MEL
62 Starlionblue : Did they even notice? That's not entirely clear.
63 HAWK21M : Whats worrying is that it could have struck more inboard ,causing a fuel leak. That could have been serious with Idling Engines. regds MEL
64 Starlionblue : Sure. But then again if the truck had been closer to the fuse the risk of collision might have been more obvious to the pilots. As the incident happe
65 HAWK21M : But an Impact & its effects can never be imagined.On an Impact,Inspection is necessary prior to continuation. regds MEL
66 Tdscanuck : It would have to be a pretty impressive impact to actually tear the wing box open. You'd certainly crush the slats and fixed leading edge, but there'
67 HAWK21M : Agree & in this case a Wing Fence is present too.I was thinking more of a lower wing impact causing a leak. To rephrase.....Why did the Pilot not sto
68 AirframeAS : Oh, so you would rather have damaged airplanes like in this situation. This is not about 'obsession' as you put it. It is about SAFETY, not only to a
69 HAWK21M : In Aviation There is no Second chance...Thats the way Thinking should be. Safety 1st.....Nothing else matters. regds MEL
70 Post contains images AirframeAS : Agreed! You summed that up in a nutshell!
71 Analog : Ummm, no. That attitude is a great way to make something too expensive for anyone to pay for, and is often tantamount to banning the activity in the
72 Barney Captain : Are you sure? It's been a while since we've had any, but from the few thousand hours I have in the 732, I don't remember NOT being able to see the wi
73 HAWK21M : No Way.There is no Compromise on Safety. Yes there can be compromise on the other factors you mentioned.But if something is Unsafe its no go. Im sure
74 Analog : Then you should never fly. The only way not to compromise on safety is to not engage in the activity at all. Safety is not an absolute; it's a relati
75 Starlionblue : Mel, what Analog is saying is that at a certain point you reach a cost that makes flying not worth it. There is no such thing as perfect safety. The
76 HAWK21M : Analog....I get what you are trying to say.....However I feel the existing mechanism in place is NOT a compromise on safety,it is safe,however it can
77 AirframeAS : Oh, I'm pretty darn sure. On the NG's, yes you can. The wings are longer, even without the winglets.
78 Tdscanuck : If it was safe, we wouldn't have accidents. Safe and unsafe are binary terms that a misused in an analog situation. Safe and unsafe don't really have
79 Post contains images Barney Captain : Man, I hate to say it, but after talking with some of my buds who flew the -200 even longer than I, we all remember being able to see the wing tip fr
80 HAWK21M : Currently on Vacation.Will check in a few days def. regds MEL
81 Barney Captain : Good for you - enjoy your time off. I just remembered about an all too common MEL that we had on -200 (27-4 I think) that related to the Leading Edge
82 Post contains images HAWK21M : Out here Part of the Engine start callouts prior to Taxi is a confirmation from Grd crew that LEDs are Extended.Its SOP. Just a long Vacation from Ch
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Who's In Trouble After This Incident?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
ERJ In Trouble With Faa? posted Sun Nov 5 2000 19:25:13 by Crjmech
Who Is A Type-rated MD-11 Pilot Here? posted Tue Oct 24 2006 20:02:28 by MD11Fanatic
Who Has Authority Police Or Pilot In Bomb Scare? posted Mon May 1 2006 19:42:07 by JulianUK
"Cut Here In Emergency" On SQ 777? posted Sun May 8 2005 07:42:27 by Lemurs
"Cut Here In Emergency" Markings posted Tue Nov 30 2004 18:54:14 by N80NA
"Cut Here In Emergency" Marked On Fuselage? posted Thu Jul 10 2003 20:26:58 by Mr Spaceman
In Rough Weather Who's Flying?...Autopilot? posted Wed Mar 19 2003 06:33:07 by William
Anyone Who Has Flown In Colombia posted Wed Mar 5 2003 15:40:35 by Bio15
What In The Heck Happened Here? posted Sun Oct 13 2002 01:54:56 by BR715-A1-30
B757 Pilots In Here.... posted Fri Oct 4 2002 20:56:19 by Cdfmxtech

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format