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'Fiddling' Non-Reving System?  
User currently offlineGoingAround From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

Hello all,

I have never heard of a case of this, but thought that actually it might be possible.

Say a pilot wanted to take himself and his family away for a holiday, but knew the flight was likely to be full and stand-by seats hard to come-by, could he purchase refundable e-tickets for his family as a way to 'reserve' the seats on the aircraft, and then wait for check-in to close (obviously after not checking in on his e-tickets), with the hope that the seats reserved for HIS tickets now become available as non-rev for him and his family to take as a non-paying passengers, and claim the money back on the unused full far tickets?

Sounds far fetched I know, but would it be possible? Has anyone ever heard of a case of this?

Thanks,
Alex

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Not a bad idea, just don't get caught. I wouldn't risk my job over it.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

A Pilot Earns a lot.Would it be worth the Trouble for the cost of the Consequences ?
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDon From Japan, joined Jun 2003, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Long time ago (early 1990s), not in a galaxy far far away but flying out of an Asian airport to another Asian airport, my wife and two kids were given seats of a heavily overbooked flight even though they were non-rev. In fact some rev pax were left behind. It helped to have the station manager as a good friend of mine and only later on he told me how he did that.

While I can't recall the exact details, the guys basically hid my family in a huge group and fiddled with the statistics that were sent to head office which indicated that the non-revs traveled next day when the flight was wide open. I think they replaced their ticket coupons with some pax who actually traveled next day.

May be it is difficult to do something similar these days with the security considerations and eticketing. But there is always a way, especially if you have the right connections and happen to be in the right continent.

(And please don't ask me why my family didn't travel next day when the flight was wide open, they HAD to travel that day to attend a wedding on which my son was the page.)


User currently offline10MID From Singapore, joined Aug 2004, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2517 times:



Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
I have never heard of a case of this, but thought that actually it might be possible.

Some airlines have, and there are policies specifically prohibiting this practice.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Some individuals I used to know were guilty of such fun offenses.

Book a "party of 10 Rodriguez".....when they suddenly don't show, that CRJ has plenty of room to stretch out on.

End of story...completely a terminating offense, btw.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2486 times:



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
Some individuals I used to know were guilty of such fun offenses.

Book a "party of 10 Rodriguez".....when they suddenly don't show, that CRJ has plenty of room to stretch out on.

End of story...completely a terminating offense, btw.

I know of several airline employees (one a VP) who lost their jobs due to abuse of their travel privileges. It's not worth it.


User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

It's not unusual to have employees lose their travel privileges, and without those, what's the point? Airline jobs are often not great paying positions, so without travel benefits, you might as well quit.

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2348 times:



Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
Hello all,

I have never heard of a case of this, but thought that actually it might be possible.

Say a pilot wanted to take himself and his family away for a holiday, but knew the flight was likely to be full and stand-by seats hard to come-by, could he purchase refundable e-tickets for his family as a way to 'reserve' the seats on the aircraft, and then wait for check-in to close (obviously after not checking in on his e-tickets), with the hope that the seats reserved for HIS tickets now become available as non-rev for him and his family to take as a non-paying passengers, and claim the money back on the unused full far tickets?

Sounds far fetched I know, but would it be possible? Has anyone ever heard of a case of this?

It is possible but most airlines specifically ban staff from doing so... in fact at the very least staff are likely to loose their staff travel privilages for a year or 2 as a result... more seriously it could be for longer and in some cases is considered a sackable offence.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2345 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
A Pilot Earns a lot.Would it be worth the Trouble for the cost of the Consequences ?

Not in North America. At least without quite a bit of seniority. Junior pilots are paid in peanuts with the occasional small change thrown in.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2326 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Junior pilots are paid in peanuts with the occasional small change thrown in.

Hows that compared with Indian Pilots salary wise.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3422 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2297 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Hows that compared with Indian Pilots salary wise.

Welllllll what do Indian pilots make?

Starting pay at a regional will be $18-28,000 first year in the US.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2288 times:



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 11):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Hows that compared with Indian Pilots salary wise.

Welllllll what do Indian pilots make?

Starting pay at a regional will be $18-28,000 first year in the US.

If you want to make a comparison with India you also have to set that in relation to cost of living and average wage for the country in question. 18-28k is pretty low for the US. You might well make more stacking boxes in a warehouse.

On the other hand, it's two or three times what the same box stacker makes in HK.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

I know of an AA ticket agent that booked fictitious First Class reservations on an International flight. This was to guarantee that the employee's family had a seat when the First Class pax "no showed". The agent was fired.


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2259 times:



Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 11):
Welllllll what do Indian pilots make

Around 4-5 Lakhs excluding Benifits for P1s & 2-5-3 Lakhs for P2s.[1 Lakh = Rs 1,00,000]

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3422 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Is p2 the equivalent of a first officer (copilot, right seater, etc)?

US 24K = 9,436,785.98 Rs, so I guess that puts out pay at about 1 Lakh for first year pilots. These pilots are likely to end up in an airlines junior bases, which are often junior due to their high cost of living (DC or NYC for example).



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

I know of one pilot (for a major US legacy carrier) that was terminated for making false bookings for his planned commuting flights. On several occasions, he used the names and phone numbers of friends, but those friends (the same names, over and over) always "no-showed" for their flights, while this pilot received a seat assignment for those same flights. Eventually, the station manager became suspicious and brought Corporate Security in to investigate.

That pilot would have been a wide-body Captain by now.

Furthermore, he could have driven to his base in just a few hours if he was unable to obtain a seat assignment. His house was less than 200 miles from his crew base and an interstate highway connected the two cities.



A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4072 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2175 times:
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In order to make this trick effective, wouldn't one have to book a large dummy party, thereby making it that much more likely to be detected if it happens repeatedly ? If a flight is so full as to have to retort to creating a no-show in order to secure a seat, isn't the risk high that fare-paying passengers would be on stand-by anyhow ?


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2158 times:



Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 16):
I know of one pilot (for a major US legacy carrier) that was terminated for making false bookings for his planned commuting flights. On several occasions, he used the names and phone numbers of friends, but those friends (the same names, over and over) always "no-showed" for their flights, while this pilot received a seat assignment for those same flights. Eventually, the station manager became suspicious and brought Corporate Security in to investigate.

That pilot would have been a wide-body Captain by now.

Furthermore, he could have driven to his base in just a few hours if he was unable to obtain a seat assignment. His house was less than 200 miles from his crew base and an interstate highway connected the two cities.

The way some people manage to screw up their lives by being lazy and/or greedy never ceases to amaze me.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Too risky and too uncertain. Most airlines overbook so there are revenue pax with higher boarding priority in line in front of you for those seats. Not to mention other non-revs with more senority.

User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
The way some people manage to screw up their lives by being lazy and/or greedy never ceases to amaze me.

I went through trade school with a guy who was very smart, guaranteed a job before he'd graduate, and who could have had a good career in aviation as I have done.
However, he decided it'd be more interesting to steal test equipment from the school, thus ending his course short, after already investing a year in it. I wonder what he's doing now..................
As for fiddling the system, I've found that standby travel is so unpredictable that the risk seems huge, compared with the chances that it'll actually do you any good.

[Edited 2008-01-07 18:35:43]

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2103 times:



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 20):
I went through trade school with a guy who was very smart, guaranteed a job before he'd graduate, and who could have had a good career in aviation as I have done.
However, he decided it'd be more interesting to steal test equipment from the school, thus ending his course short, after already investing a year in it. I wonder what he's doing now..................

I've noticed that some very smart people without a solid moral base to their character operate under the illusion that they're so smart they'll never get caught.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 584 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Doug_Or

...US 24K = 9,436,785.98 Rs...

Possibly a slight mistake in your calculation?

  • US$ 1 = INR 39.32
  • US$ 24,000 = INR 943,680 (Western notation)

In India, where:

  • 1 Lakh = 100,000
  • 1 Crore = 10,000,000 or 100 Lakhs
  • INR 943,680 (Western notation) is written as INR 9,43,680 (Indian notation)
  • INR 943,680 (Western notation) is spoken as 9.43 Lakhs.


In most airlines, any abuse of non-revenue travel concessions is generally considered a serious disciplinary offence. Making phantom bookings, to generate last minute no-shows, would be career-ending in most airlines.


Best regards

Bellerophon


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2036 times:



Quoting GoingAround (Thread starter):
Sounds far fetched I know, but would it be possible? Has anyone ever heard of a case of this?

Airlines take extraordinary steps to detect and prevent this type of abuse. They have systems running 24 hours a day checking bookings for fake names (Micky Mouse, George Bush etc), last minute bookings made by airline or travel agents on oversold flights, especially in refundable classes. They will catch you, have no fear.


User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3422 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2005 times:



Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 22):

Ok! Ok! I must have, I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place
or something. Shit. I always do that. I always mess up some mundane
detail.



Sorry, couldn't resist. I realized the error in my conversion more than a half hour after posting (thus couldn't edit it), but I didn't realize the difference in Indian notation. Learning has occurred.



When in doubt, one B pump off
25 BAe146QT : :::EDIT::: I realise that I sound cynical and that it's not strictly aviation related, but I think that it't's generally true so please bear with me i
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : Delta has a zero tolerance policy against this. You WILL loose your job if your cought.
27 MQTmxguy : So do AA/AE and YX. Non-Reving is an awsome perk and I love having that privledge and working in this industry, playing russian roulette like that is
28 Triple7man : Very tempting, but this is usually what happens as a result. Also, one might be inclined to be listed for one flight and have a reservation on anothe
29 Max Q : Not worth it. In my opinion the best way to end your airline career will be to walk into the chief pilot's office to say goodbye on your last day and
30 Post contains images Avt007 : In the system I deal with, this is monitored. I have received phone calls about my bookings when I accidentally (honest) had 2 PNRs out of the same a
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