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HUD In Commercial Aircraft (pic)?!?  
User currently offlineFlyvabb From India, joined Apr 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10391 times:


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Photo © Nitin Sarin



First i would like to congratulate nitin on finally getting a picture from Chandigarh on this forum!!

Secondly i want to ask a question about Heads Up Display, if you notice the top right corner of this pic, this Gulfstream has a HUD, How come its only located on the Captains side.

Further, do any other commercial airliners come with HUD? What is the significance of such an option?

And lastly are there any regional airlines operating Gulfstream aircraft:?

Regards
VABB


Up, up and away!
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10363 times:



Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):

Further, do any other commercial airliners come with HUD?

Yes... several.... jetBlue has them in their E190...... Alaska has or is adding them to their B737.... I think Southwest is as well...and I'm sure there are many many more



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31236 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10356 times:
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Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):
Further, do any other commercial airliners come with HUD? What is the significance of such an option?

At least a few do, like some AS 737s. The advantage is that in tricky approaches (either terrain or weather), the pilot's eyes are outside the cockpit.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10352 times:



Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):
Secondly i want to ask a question about Heads Up Display, if you notice the top right corner of this pic, this Gulfstream has a HUD, How come its only located on the Captains side.

Probably expense...it's typically an option, and an expensive one. Since only one pilot is actually flying, you can probably live with one HUD most of the time.

Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):

Further, do any other commercial airliners come with HUD? What is the significance of such an option?

It's an option on the 737 now. Not sure about other current Boeing or Airbus production. Dual HUD's will be standard on the 787. I'm not a pilot, but as I understand the benefit is it allows the pilot to keep his eyes out the window while still getting crucial info (the HUD basically duplicates the PFD). Among other things, I believe this allows you to have lower minimums.

Tom.


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10303 times:
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Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):
Further, do any other commercial airliners come with HUD? What is the significance of such an option?

For a long time, it has been an option.
Air Inter, as far back as the late sixties had their Caravelle / Mercure aircraft equipped with one.
When they received their A320s, they had them fitted , too. Sadly,they were removed a few years ago as only the Orly-based airplanes had them and it was a bugger in terms of fleet training.
Here are the pics, first of a deployed HUD :

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Photo © Thierry IZZI


and then of a stored one :

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Photo © Captainnico



There were three main uses :

  • In visual flight, it used to allow for a very accurate flight path control, especially useful in mountainous terrain, haze, over the sea approaches.
  • On an LVP approach, it allows the captain to monitor the approach status / conditions while looking outside
  • On a LVP takeoff, allows a virtual vision of the runway, therefore getting very low minima.


Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 3):
(the HUD basically duplicates the PFD).

Not quite. All HUD's base their main information on the actual airplane energy, here translated into the *flight path vector* symbol....Makes for very stable approaches as you just *place* the *bird* on the runway markers.
The symbology changes on an ILS approach, on which one can visualize the ILS windows, or during takeoff where the centerline is materialised.
What is interesting is that HUDs seem to have regained a lot of favour from the bean counters : B^ having them allows crews to go down to CatIII manual flying, costing less than a redundant A/P set.
All new types :787s, 380s and 350s will have them, either as an option of as a basic equipment ( Jury is still out for the 350 where it seems to be part of the basic package).



Contrail designer
User currently offlineSkyweasy82 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

JAZZ has them on their CRJ's

User currently offlineFlyvabb From India, joined Apr 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10219 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):

Yes... several.... jetBlue has them in their E190...... Alaska has or is adding them to their B737.... I think Southwest is as well...and I'm sure there are many many more



Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
At least a few do, like some AS 737s. The advantage is that in tricky approaches (either terrain or weather), the pilot's eyes are outside the cockpit.

So its a very selective option? Depending on routes flown by a particular airline? I ahve gathers from Justplanes.com that alaska flies to various unusual airports. Is that a reason?

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
For a long time, it has been an option.
Air Inter, as far back as the late sixties had their Caravelle / Mercure aircraft equipped with one.
When they received their A320s, they had them fitted , too. Sadly,they were removed a few years ago as only the Orly-based airplanes had them and it was a bugger in terms of fleet training.

Wow that interesting, i never knew that!

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
80s and 350s will have them, either as an option of as a basic equipment ( Jury is still out for the 350 where it seems to be part of the basic package).

I havent seen one in the A380 till now! Can anyoen confirm if its an option or a standard feature?

Personally i feel its a technology transferred from airforce fighters, can that be a right assumption?



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10218 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Alaska has or is adding them to their B737

AS has them on ALL of their 737's. Their M83's don't have them. WN has them on all of their 737's, IIRC. The idea of the HUD is to help keep the pilots eyes on the final approach and the instruments at the same time rather than going without the HUD and the pilot would have to look at the approach and then look down at the intruments then look up at the approach and repeat. HUD's eliminate that practice.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10216 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
I think Southwest is as well

WN has them on at least some (maybe all?) NG 737's and some older model 737's.

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Photo © Matthew Hom--Frame of Mind, Inc.


[Edited 2008-01-08 14:30:43]

User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10173 times:



Quoting Flyvabb (Reply 6):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
At least a few do, like some AS 737s. The advantage is that in tricky approaches (either terrain or weather), the pilot's eyes are outside the cockpit.

So its a very selective option? Depending on routes flown by a particular airline? I ahve gathers from Justplanes.com that alaska flies to various unusual airports. Is that a reason?

Alaska flies in some horrible weather. The improved ability to fly in low visibility, apparently, significantly decreases the number of flights they have to cancel or divert because of weather.

Quoting Flyvabb (Reply 6):

Personally i feel its a technology transferred from airforce fighters, can that be a right assumption?

Yep.

Tom.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10161 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):
The idea of the HUD is to help keep the pilots eyes on the final approach and the instruments at the same time rather than going without the HUD and the pilot would have to look at the approach and then look down at the intruments then look up at the approach and repeat. HUD's eliminate that practice.

...And they make it soooooo easy to fly a precise approach down to minimums. Simply keep a small circle centered in a larger circle, and you'll fly a perfect approach.

2H4



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User currently offlineKensukeAida From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10135 times:



Quoting Jkudall (Reply 8):

WN has them on at least some (maybe all?) NG 737's and some older model 737's.

I believe they have them on all. They first got them on the ex-Morris 733s, liked them a lot, and then retrofitted them to their whole fleet (and are now having them installed on 73Gs from the factory).

- John


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10058 times:

This should be an add-on to the G-IV as I don't believe it came as on option from the factory that way. The G450 and 550 have it as an option, if not standard. There are some models that will display just PFD/nav info, while others like the ones on new Global's integrate an EVS camera to display a synthetic infrared view of the terrain on the HUD as well.

Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):

And lastly are there any regional airlines operating Gulfstream aircraft:?

Absolutely not


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9984 times:
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Quoting Flyvabb (Thread starter):
And lastly are there any regional airlines operating Gulfstream aircraft:?



Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 12):
Absolutely not

There were, though:


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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages



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Photo © JetPix



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Photo © Gerard Helmer



Pity they're not anymore.

2H4



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User currently offlineCeph From Singapore, joined Jun 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9906 times:

I'm I'm not wrong its offered as an option on the A380.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9874 times:

Delta has them on a lot of their 737's. I also know that it is an option from the CR2-CR9.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9828 times:


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Photo © Michael Ciasullo


Watching the Instruments as well as Visual viewing of the Exterior.

Anyone aware of the Manufacturers for the Type HUD approved on the B737s.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9826 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Anyone aware of the Manufacturers for the Type HUD approved on the B737s.

Rockwell Collins is one.

2H4



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User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9818 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
Rockwell Collins is one.

http://www.rockwellcollins.com/produ...cs/displays1/cockpit-displays/HUD/
Thanks.The Link does not state B737,so I was wondering.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9817 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Anyone aware of the Manufacturers for the Type HUD approved on the B737s.

Back when I transitioned to the 738, AA published Marconi as the manufacturer of its HUDs. The supplier has changed names numerous times since then and I don't know who claims that title today.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):
...And they make it soooooo easy to fly a precise approach down to minimums. Simply keep a small circle centered in a larger circle, and you'll fly a perfect approach.

Actually, you have to keep the larger circle (airplane symbol really) around the smaller circle (flight director symbol). And it is not "soooooo easy" as it looks. The display is so "expanded" that virtually any deviation looks large to the pilot and he will be working his a** off while the plane doesn't appear to be moving at all the those not flying --it is a common teaching technique to show new FO's what the CA was doing as they essentially see no deviations the entire approach. It also takes some getting used to as the fancy "trend vectors" often don't match trend directions (again, due to the greatly expanded displays). Still... a very good tool indeed. And yes, AA's experience is that the 737s CAT-III HUD is way cheaper to purchase and maintain than a comparable CAT-III autopilot system --and it was proven to be more accurate as well.  Wink



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9811 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 19):
Actually, you have to keep the larger circle (airplane symbol really) around the smaller circle (flight director symbol). And it is not "soooooo easy" as it looks.

Ah, my mistake. My impression of the overall ease of use was based on the fact that a monkey like myself could successfully fly such a precise approach through weather in the sim.  Wink

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9788 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
My impression of the overall ease of use was based on the fact that a monkey like myself could successfully fly such a precise approach through weather in the sim.

Oh, well with "that" definition... you are correct.  Wink When AA began initial testing to determine if it wanted HUD or CAT-III for its 738s, some of the secretaries at the school-house were brought to the sim to fly CAT-III HUD approaches. They more often than not successfully landed the plane. Stopping was another matter though.  duck 



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9732 times:



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 19):
Still... a very good tool indeed. And yes, AA's experience is that the 737s CAT-III HUD is way cheaper to purchase and maintain than a comparable CAT-III autopilot system --and it was proven to be more accurate as well.

AAR90

And it is great for hitting your head on while getting into the pilots seat (the joy of bieng a 6'4" mechanic). Since we don't see the 738 here. Have they fixed the problems of MU failures due to overheating?

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9691 times:



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 22):
And it is great for hitting your head on while getting into the pilots seat (the joy of bieng a 6'4" mechanic).

I can only imagine. Its only taken me 7+ years, but I only hit my head once or twice a year now.  conehead 

Quote:
Have they fixed the problems of MU failures due to overheating?

Yes... a few years ago. Now I'll see a "system fail" msg two-three times per year. I still see OHU's overheating though that is usually caused by pilots leaving the combiner down (and the system "on") between flights --even though the checklist requires the combiner to be "stowed" after parking.  cry 



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9670 times:

Horizon had/has them in their Dash 8 -200's which are heading over on lease to Commutair. So I guess you could say Commutair has HUD's too:

http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2964


25 Matt2242 : Qantas and some of their B738s use a HUD system as well. Matt
26 Tornado82 : For AAR90 and other pilots... how often are the HUD's used? Every moment of every flight? Just approaches? Just in IMC? Varies by pilot? I'm just thin
27 AAR90 : If working, AA requires its use for EVERY takeoff and EVERY landing. Primary stated reason is to prevent tailstrikes, but it is just a good source of
28 HAWK21M : Whats the Scheuled Maintenance on the Unit like? Interesting. regds MEL
29 Boeing767mech : the maintenance program on the HUD is, it fails troubleshoot and repair it. I don't know of any scheduled checks on the unit, Unless it is done at B
30 Tornado82 : Interesting. Thanks for the info. Is there one on the FO side too for when the FO is the PF?
31 Avt007 : The only maintenance on the HGS2100 and 4200 is cleaning the combiner glass, projector lens, ambient light sensor, and the alignment detector. Basica
32 Post contains images AirframeAS : Shoot, I totally forgot who made ours at AS. I think it was Honeywell, but I could totally be wrong. I just don't remember. Very, very interesting in
33 2H4 : You mean PFDs, right? 2H4
34 HAWK21M : How long would a replacement take in terms of Man-hrs? regds MEL.
35 HAWK21M : How long would a replacement take in terms of Man-hrs? regds MEL.
36 Pihero : I'm curious : do you rotate at T/O using the HUD ? Because on those I've seen, the expanded - a lot more than on the PFD - attitude scale makes it in
37 Avt007 : PDF- Oops, been spending too much time on the computer lately........ For the computers, and control panel, basically a few minutes. For the projector
38 Post contains images 2H4 : Just making sure Adobe isn't meddling in the affairs of the avionics industry. 2H4
39 Post contains images Mir : TZ had them on their 738s (captain's side only IIRC). They still might. Interestingly, the pilot said that the attachements aren't as secure as he'd l
40 Post contains images AAR90 : Just the CA's side. AA's primary reason for installing the HUD was for CAT-III capability. In those situations, the CA will be the one landing the pl
41 Pihero : AAR90 Thanks.I hadn't heard of that TOGA setting. Cheers.
42 Post contains links AAR90 : Shown HERE. #8 is the Target Pitch Line. #9 is the AOA indicator #10 is the runway centerline. Certified for as low as 300RVR for takeoffs.
43 Pihero : Is it because of the HUD limitations or for some ops reasons, because AF / IT used it for 75 m RVR takeoffs.
44 Mark5388916 : FAA vs JAA Rules perhaps?
45 DeltaGuy : Moldy oldy thread, but I was going through my G-IV books today in prep for another trip to Flight Safety, and I saw that the HUD system was indeed an
46 9VSIO : Hmmm, if you had both autoland and HUD installed..which would you rather use?
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