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A Little Bumpy Air - Training Video  
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4716 times:
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Reading the posts on the thread about the Air Canada A319 incident, it became apparent to me that there is an appalling lack of awareness of the effects or dangers of turbulence both to aircrews and their passengers.
I then remembered that sometime ago, there was a very well made video which was part of a training package which aim was to promote some crew - cabin and cockpit - basic knowledge of the phenomenon and a reminder for some prevention, defense techniques.
I found that video, hidden in the middle of a totally unrelated site.
The video, titled A Little Bumpy Air" can be accessed by clicking on the hyperlink toward the bottom of the page, just above the *Gate to Gate* incrustation pic.
I'd be obliged to anyone managing to direct link the video.
It's a 26 min well-made film and it could well prevent some injuries if you spread it around.
After all, we're all in here for Flight Safety, too !
Go to a little bumpy air

Regards

[Edited 2008-01-14 14:27:39]


Contrail designer
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJamie757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4696 times:



Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
I'd be obliged to anyone managing to direct link the video.

http://videoontheweb.faa.gov/training/Little-Bumpy-Air-HS.asx

Try that.

 Smile

Rgds.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

Pihero, that video is a bit corny but very informative. Thanks.









The following are style notes. They don't detract from the usefulness of the film. I just found them fun:
- It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show" with the narrator though.
- "Seatbelt sign. Some passengers... may be used to ignoring it in their own countries." Lol. As if Americans are so much better.

[Edited 2008-01-14 15:55:06]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4665 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show"

The problem, Starlionblue, is that I have two bad experiences of severe turbulence, one on a DC-4 in a storm cell triggered by some local convection and one over Iran on a 744, in a shearing jetstream situation ; both at night.
Horror it is alright. I could testify.
Not very long ago, an A340 encountered some extreme turbulence over the Pyrenees, with some very serious injuries to both passengers and F/As...On two consecutive nights last year at the same point in the Gulf of Mexico two airplanes got in the same trap of moonless night flying over hidden hammerheads with dire consequences...
The sky sometimes should be treated as a mine field...
Cheers !



Contrail designer
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4654 times:



Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
It is a bit "Rocky Horror Picture Show"

The problem, Starlionblue, is that I have two bad experiences of severe turbulence, one on a DC-4 in a storm cell triggered by some local convection and one over Iran on a 744, in a shearing jetstream situation ; both at night.
Horror it is alright. I could testify.

You misunderstand. My comment was not reflecting on the subject matter. The narrator is a bit like the one in the movie "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which is in fact not a horror film but a comedy/musical.

I do understand the seriousness of turbulence.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4649 times:
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Sorry, friend, I didn't catch that one, because I haven't seen it.
My son thinks I'm chicken because I refuse to watch his horror movies with him, so my horror film culture is very poor ( think that the last film I saw was the "Vampires' ball" ! ) ..
Always nice to learn

and to talk to you.

Regards



Contrail designer
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

I have always felt that pax who do not heed the seatbelt sign, or unbuckle when seated, are just subjecting themselves to a Darwinian selection process of their own making.

The F/As have a far riskier existence.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
Sorry, friend, I didn't catch that one, because I haven't seen it.
My son thinks I'm chicken because I refuse to watch his horror movies with him, so my horror film culture is very poor ( think that the last film I saw was the "Vampires' ball" ! ) ..

***horrified gasp***. You haven't seen The Rocky Horror Picture show?!? Truly a cult classic of camp. Susan Sarandon as a slut and Tim Curry as a transvestite alien mad scientist. Meat Loaf doing a musical number on a motorcycle before being stabbed to death.

Anyway there's nothing much horror about it except the title and theme. It's hilarious, especially if you go in a movie theater the US. People dress up, re-enact the scenes, shout by now traditional comments to the actors, sing and dance along to the musical numbers. An odd and enjoyable bit of pop culture.

And the musical is great. "Let's do the time warp agaaaaaaaaaaain....."

And now we're waaaaay off topic.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4252 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4585 times:



Quoting Pihero (Thread starter):
it became apparent to me that there is an appalling lack of awareness of the effects or dangers of turbulence both to aircrews and their passengers.

I have a question for you since you're a pilot of mature years (I say that with the greatest respect as I - and most people - respect pilots who are senior in age and hours): in spite of the far greater number of flights and hours flown, does it not appear that turbulence related incidences have actually declined in recent years? I remember a dozen or more years ago when I would fly, maybe four or six times a year at most, that I would encounter good turbulence on at least half the flights (or so it seemed). Whereas these days, I fly a couple of times a month or more and rarely do I encounter turbulence of any kind. It seems turbulence events have been greatly diminished on commercial flights.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
I have always felt that pax who do not heed the seatbelt sign,

Maybe airlines should install a simple circuit in seatbelts that would at least indicate when seatbelts are buckled. While I don't expect it to report the "click" in real time so the flight attendants can admonish the passenger during the flight, at least it would tell if the passenger was buckled in when they should have been after an event, which would mitigate the airline's liability when those same s**theads, who didn't buckle-up when they should have, file a lawsuit.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

The databases aren't public but; In the US, at least, it's only the public reporting that's decreased. The number of joint injuries (knee, ankle, wrist, hip, etc.) and contusions have actually increased slightly on a yearly average basis.

It's a result of the "nothing can hurt me" syndrome demonstrated by the "I want mine now" mentality flying public in the US.

Here's a good wannabe site that attracts a lot of monday morning quarterbacks and sofa experts
http://aviation-safety.net/index.php

In my past life I was always in awe of the self-imposed lack of knowledge of the flying public in general. There were and often still are passengers I'd like to spank for all their stupidity and arrogance.

Okay
I'm off the soapbox; Fire away

 Smile



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4557 times:



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 8):
In my past life I was always in awe of the self-imposed lack of knowledge of the flying public in general. There were and often still are passengers I'd like to spank for all their stupidity and arrogance.

And you're not overawed now? I still am.  Wink

What really bugs me is people who claim to know something when they clearly don't. Here's a tip: If you don't know, shut the f*ck up or at least preface with "I'm not sure..."



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

warningwarningwarning:


Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
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Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
in spite of the far greater number of flights and hours flown, does it not appear that turbulence related incidences have actually declined in recent years?

Very basically, we have a very definite reduction in (thunder)-storms related turbulence because of the accuracy of modern airborne detection systems - radars, windshear detectors -, and I see the trend to keep on declining - the automatic vertical scan will help preventing the dangerous overfly of embedded cells...etc...but CAT related turbulence is definitely on the rise.
On the other hand, airplanes are flying higher, in generally smoother airflows than were usual only 15 years ago, so if encounters are less frequent, their severity has in fact increased due to complacency, diminishing airmanship (no blame here, it is very difficult to learn about something you seldom see}.
In the past two years, I've known of seven instances on European airlines, ending with injuries as serious as spinal.
That's the reason why I think the video should be spread in the public.

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 10):
Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!

Kaspersky hasn't found one in mine !



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4531 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
***horrified gasp***. You haven't seen The Rocky Horror Picture show?!?

I will try very soon to see that and be able to discuss cult monies !
 Silly



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4485 times:
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Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
It seems turbulence events have been greatly diminished on commercial flights.



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 8):
The databases aren't public but; In the US, at least, it's only the public reporting that's decreased. The number of joint injuries (knee, ankle, wrist, hip, etc.) and contusions have actually increased slightly on a yearly average basis.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
What really bugs me is people who claim to know something when they clearly don't.

As I've got some time on my computer, being on stand-by, this is a site that lists known events. France, among a lot of other countries is not part of the list, but it is still an impressive compilation of turbulence-related incident / accidents.
FSS-turbulence-events
Unfortunately, you'll only get the basics, the gist of these reports being sold on a DVD. But I think that's just enough for us on this forum...One can always x-refe it with one of the accident data bases.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4465 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 10):
warningwarningwarning:

Watch out ,folks, my security software found a virus in that video!

Are you sure it didn't just warn of running potentially dangerous content? .asx is a redirector extension to .asf, meaning that the file you download in turn points to online content and runs it. This is a potential security hole but since you trust the file you're fine in this case.

What AV software do you use? For the record Avast didn't have an issue.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEIDAA From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 827 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4412 times:
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Pihero, thanks for sharing that video with us!

I don't mean to take the thread off topic, but could anyone give a quick explanation of jetstream shear? Is this a situation that arises as you enter and exit a jetstream? Is it a relatively sudden increase/decrease in wind-speed that causes the disturbance?

Secondly, what is a typical "turbulence penetration speed" for an aircraft? Let's say for example an A330 cruising at M0.81/82 hits rough air, what sort of speed is used?

Sorry for the layman questions... but if you can't ask them in tech/ops and get a good answer, where can you?

Thanks



Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4143 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4263 times:
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Quoting EIDAA (Reply 15):
a quick explanation of jetstream shear? Is this a situation that arises as you enter and exit a jetstream? Is it a relatively sudden increase/decrease in wind-speed that causes the disturbance?

A shear is a rapid change in the speed and / or direction of the present wind. We refer to jetstream shears when in fact we are seeing changes a convergence / divergence of the airflow.
Exiting a jetstream on the cold side could well let you see one.

Quoting EIDAA (Reply 15):
what is a typical "turbulence penetration speed" for an aircraft? Let's say for example an A330 cruising at M0.81/82 hits rough air, what sort of speed is used?

For a 'Bus, the turbulence penetration is in the vicinity of 275 kt / .76 Mach.
If you're interested, we could give you the theory behind .

Regards



Contrail designer
User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Wow, I think I was actually in the "Twinjet" aircraft cabin that is seen in the video. I believe it's the Long Beach Alteon MD-80 cabin trainer. Fun little thing.  Smile


Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineEIDAA From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 827 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4235 times:
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Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
If you're interested, we could give you the theory behind .

Most certainly interested! Any information appreciated...

Thanks



Most Flown:- G-BUVA (20 Flights), EI-DEB (12 Flights), EI-JFK (11 Flights)
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4227 times:

Mark, you are right about the cabin trainer. As fgor the flight attendant, I used to work with her at another airline, prior to that she was a Master cabin trainer for Mc-Douglas...very cool to see her after all these years!


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

I use Norton Antivirus and Spyware Doctor; both came up with a warning about the video.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4077 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 20):
I use Norton Antivirus and Spyware Doctor; both came up with a warning about the video.

Norton is notoriously over-paranoid about scripted events in my opinion. But hey, better safe than sorry.  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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