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Slick Pilot Loses Entire Prop, Lands Hoover Style  
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4353 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

....From http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20071231X02008&key=1:

(emphasis mine)

===============================================================
On December 26, 2007, at 1002 mountain standard time, a Piper PA-46-310P, N47BC, piloted by an Airline Transport Pilot, experienced an engine crankshaft failure and subsequent propeller separation, approximately 12.5 miles east of the Aspen/Pitkin County Airport (ASE), Aspen, Colorado.

The personal flight was being operated on an instrument flight rules flight plan from ASE to Denver, Colorado, under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. The pilot and three passengers were not injured and the airplane sustained minor damage. The flight departed ASE approximately 0945.

The pilot said that on climb out passing 16,000 feet, he began to notice oil droplets forming on his windscreen. On seeing the oil, he contacted Aspen Approach, declared an emergency, and began a standard rate, 180-degree turn, back to the airport. He said the turn took about a minute.

Just as he'd completed the turn, he heard a "boom" felt a shutter, and then his whole windscreen was covered with oil. The pilot said he may have noted a pitch up with the bang, but he immediately got on the best glide speed, 90 knots, and began retracing his ground track back to the airport. The pilot said everything on the airplane continued to work. He had electrics, could navigate and got the gear down.

The pilot said because he knew the Aspen area well, he was able to navigate and set up for a dead stick landing. He said he could see the runway through the oil on his windscreen as a dark blur in the surrounding snow. He said he kept his speed up as he didn't want to land short.

Once he got close to the runway, he looked out the side windows to judge the flare and touchdown. He said he just wanted to keep the airplane in the center of the runway. He rolled out to the end of the runway and turned off on to the taxiway before stopping. The pilot said it was only when he was on the ground and one of the responding firemen informed him that he realized he didn't have a propeller.

An examination of the airplane showed minor damage to the front of the cowling. The engine showed the crankshaft fractured aft of the flange. The propeller and spinner, and the front part of the crankshaft were missing. No other damage to the airplane was found. The engine was retained for further examination.
===============================================================














This guy gets serious style points for thoughtfully vacating the runway after landing. Do you suppose his post-flight martini was shaken or stirred?

2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlymatt2bermud From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 563 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Nice report 2H4! I wonder if they found the prop?


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Double bonus points for being able to see out the front after the prop hub hemorraged oil Big grin

Does your glide distance go up? I'd imagine having no prop, windmilling or stopped, will significantly increase the glide distance...question is, does this change L/Dmax and your best rate of glide speed?  Wink

Also, anyone know how you get the gear down in a Malibu with no power-is it electric gear, or do you have to sit there pumping an emergency handle like there's no tomorrow once you're assured of a landing?



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2572 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

To be very pedantic, to have landed Hoover style he would have had to touch down on each main wheel singly, then both together before turning off.  mischievous 

For me, the most impressive thing was not the coasting turn at the end of the runway, but the fact that he flew the approach with almost nil forward visibility. I see the pilot was an ATP so he would have been used to flying without seeing where he was going.  Wink



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4209 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Thread starter):
Do you suppose his post-flight martini was shaken or stirred?

I doubt if it mattered, but it was surely guzzled.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4186 times:

He's damn lucky the prop didn't take out the empennage on the way back. There was a 210 near CPS a few years ago that lost the prop and it took out the rudder. He didn't survive.


DMI
User currently offlineCeph From Singapore, joined Jun 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4184 times:

Great job! Incredible incident! Imagine the pilot's reaction when the responding fireman told him: I think your propeller is missing...

User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4099 times:

I hope no one got the propeller on his/her head...

User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

Aspen is a bad place for that kinda thing, the mountains are big, and very close to the runway. Good job!

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

That aircraft has a pretty generous wingspan, so tons of wing to glide on coming home...worst airport I could think of to do that in, but he made it, so bravo-zulu!

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineHangarRat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3899 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Does your glide distance go up? I'd imagine having no prop, windmilling or stopped, will significantly increase the glide distance...question is, does this change L/Dmax and your best rate of glide speed?

Peter Garrison wrote a column about that in Flying a couple of months ago. He tested it, not so much by losing his prop, but by measuring the difference in drag with the prop windmilling and with the prop stopped and feathered.

The article's not online, unfortunately.



Spell check is a false dog
User currently offlineSilverComet From Mauritius, joined Apr 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Something very similar happened to one of my friends (and now a colleague) during our CPL training in France. We were flying solo cross country along the same route, I was a few minutes behind him. We were both flying DA-40's. He did a touch and go at Amiens (LFAY) and on initial climb at ~1000' AGL he lost all power with the town of Amiens under him. He immediately turned on downwind and declared an emergency. Airport was not controlled at the time (it was a Sunday) and there were quite a few other aircraft in the pattern so he had to make sure everyone knew he was coming in to land no matter what.

The DA-40, with its wingspan of 11m, performs like a glider. So even with only about 1000' of air under him he managed to perform a by-the-book engine out pattern and land AND vacate the runway (by that time I had reached overhead and witnessed it all). I came in to land shortly after to see if he was okay and assess the damage. The whole underside of the engine cowling and front part of the fuselage was black with oil. Investgation carried out a few days later revealed the engine casing had cracked and he had lost all the engine oil.

He was acclaimed as almost a hero for having kept his cool and done what the school had taught him to do and landing safely.

All his glory went down the drain a few weeks later when he taxiied the wing of said DA-40 into a hangar. Damage: €3500.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, I guess.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7036 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3849 times:



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 10):
Peter Garrison wrote a column about that in Flying a couple of months ago. He tested it, not so much by losing his prop, but by measuring the difference in drag with the prop windmilling and with the prop stopped and feathered.

The glide ratio will improve considerably without the propeller; the best glide speed will not change. I am curious as to whether or not this plane has had its crankshaft replaced; all big Lycomings had to have the cranks replaced a few years ago after a few incidents like this one and it was discovered that someone had changed the forging process and it resulted in weaker cranks. This was an AD and thus it would be illegal to fly an affected plane; was this one flying illegally or is there a new issue with Lycoming cranks?



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineHangarRat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3767 times:



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 10):
measuring the difference in drag with the prop windmilling and with the prop stopped and feathered

Just to correct myself, I believe the test was the difference in glide ratio and speed with the prop in coarse pitch v. fine pitch.



Spell check is a false dog
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7036 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3766 times:



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 13):
Just to correct myself, I believe the test was the difference in glide ratio and speed with the prop in coarse pitch v. fine pitch.

I have tried this on my 182; it makes a very dramatic difference. Note that for maximum glide the speed does not change; but the glide angle does. With no prop at all the difference will be even greater.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineBWI757 From Israel, joined Dec 2004, 429 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

For all those who will participate in the next 2H4 "Identify This" contest, take note  Smile


I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3679 times:



Quoting BWI757 (Reply 15):
For all those who will participate in the next 2H4 "Identify This" contest, take note

Uh-oh, so is this one a Malibu or a Mirage? Who's good at telling a Contintental big six from a Lycoming big six?  eyebrow 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Thread starter):
On seeing the oil, he contacted Aspen Approach, declared an emergency,

The way the report describes it, I get the impression that it was just droplets, like light drizzle. If my inference is correct, then clearly we're talking about a pilot who didn't stop to ponder this new phenomenon - he acted for contingency.

I get to play with all sorts of heavy metal in my job and in my hobbies. Rule #1 - if it's doing something you've never seen before, don't ponder it. Plan your escape.

::EDIT:: I'll add to Rule #1 - ...and it's doing something that you've not trained for...

Quoting 2H4 (Thread starter):
The pilot said it was only when he was on the ground and one of the responding firemen informed him that he realized he didn't have a propeller.

I was going to call shenanegans on this, but I've seen the light. We've established that the lack of a (windmilling) prop would have a noticable effect on the glide. Obviously he knew his engine was out, so the question was going to be - "How was he able to calculate the glide, not knowing the performance of his suddenly-modified aircraft?" But reading the report again, he says he kept his speed up - so I assume decided to carry the energy until the last minute, not knowing how badly his bird was broken.

I've left this here for anyone else who is as stoofid as me and thinks to ask the same thing.


Either way, I'd love to know what direction the prop left the aircraft. from the pics I'm guessing over the right wing?

[Edited 2008-01-29 15:38:59]


Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
User currently offlineRfdramp From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3506 times:

I think the engine is a Lycoming. I think I see the pushrod tubes on top, but I'm not totally sure. I've been away from school for too long so I can't tell for sure right now.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3399 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Flymatt2bermud (Reply 1):
I wonder if they found the prop?

Yeah, just imagine taking the dog out for a leisurely stroll through the neighborhood and having a prop cartwheel down and impale itself in the ground a few feet away from poor Fido.

Or in the roof of your car. I wonder if my insurance would cover it.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 5):
He's damn lucky the prop didn't take out the empennage on the way back.

I was thinking the same thing. What a mess that would have been.

Quoting SilverComet (Reply 11):
He was acclaimed as almost a hero for having kept his cool and done what the school had taught him to do and landing safely.

All his glory went down the drain a few weeks later when he taxiied the wing of said DA-40 into a hangar. Damage: €3500.

Man, what a kick in the rear!

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 12):
I am curious as to whether or not this plane has had its crankshaft replaced; all big Lycomings had to have the cranks replaced a few years ago



Quoting Rfdramp (Reply 18):
I think the engine is a Lycoming.



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
Who's good at telling a Contintental big six from a Lycoming big six?

I am! I think it's a Continental TSIO-520.  Wink

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3379 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Update....from The Aspen Times:


===============================================================================
Cox’s Piper Malibu dates back to 1988, but the Continental engine was a recently re-manufactured model with just 147 hours in the air.

Cox believes it was a metallurgical defect where the propeller meets the crank shaft in the nose of the plane that caused the problem, and said he hopes the repair will be covered in a warranty.

===============================================================================

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineRfdramp From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3278 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):

cheater... using sources and the such. if i would have looked at the ntsb report that question would have been a lot easier.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3276 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting Rfdramp (Reply 21):
cheater... using sources and the such. if i would have looked at the ntsb report that question would have been a lot easier.

All available resources, my friend.....all available resources.  biggrin 

At least I didn't try to pretend it was a simple matter of identifying engine casing bolts.  Wink

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

See 2H4, the Piper made it back in almost one piece...now, had that have been a Cessna  eek 

 wink 


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3257 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
now, had that have been a Cessna

....it would have been a much more comfortable experience for the folks at the airport.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
25 Post contains images N231YE : ...to know that the Cessna would have provided a good landing. Only, in this case, the Piper provided a great landing (albeit, in need of a few repai
26 Post contains images 2H4 : No, what I meant was that, had they been in a Cessna, the folks on the ground wouldn't have experienced such nausea upon seeing it. 2H4
27 Post contains images N231YE : Because there would have been nothing left
28 Post contains images 2H4 : Nothing left to see....yeah, you're right. It would have made it to the original destination in style and comfort. 2H4
29 Meister808 : ... and had it been a Cirrus, it would have been gently deposited to the side of a mountain, where the occupants would have surely frozen to death und
30 SEPilot : That is correct; later models have the Lycoming TIO-540, which I assumed it had. But looking at the pictures I see the alternator at right angles to
31 Jawed : why do you say that?
32 SilverComet : Some Cirrus (Cirrii?) models have a parachute packed somewhere inside the fuselage, and it can be deployed in case of engine failure. So the plane fl
33 Tdscanuck : Cirrus Airframe Parachute System™ (CAPS). Standard on all current Cirrii (I like that!). According to Cirrus it's saved "over 20 people", so they m
34 Post contains images KELPkid : Unfortunately, however, the Cirrus fleet is still experiencing above-average fatality rates per 1000 hours of flying compared to the rest of the GA f
35 Rfdramp : does anyone know what altitude is needed for the CAPS to be effective?
36 Pilotpip : Most of the deployments have occured due to inadvertant flight into IMC. So yes, people are using it as a crutch. A vast majority of the fatalities ha
37 2H4 : Do you think the relatively advanced avionics are similarly being used as a crutch? I flew an SR20 with a guy once, and couldn't believe how much fai
38 Pilotpip : All of the above. All of that stuff makes people forget that they're flying VFR and need to look outside. TAA aircraft are a prime example of technolo
39 Post contains images N231YE : At least one mistake high
40 BAe146QT : You probably know this but I'll put it here for those who might not; Reliable parachutes were available during the first world war, (and in fact thei
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