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Fuel Burn & Cargo Capacity  
User currently offlineTimebandit From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Hi

I am writing an Airline Business Simulation, and I am finding it difficult to track down certain Aircraft information crucial to the simulations accuracy. I can locate most Aircraft Data I need somewhere on the net, but two really important items elude me. Can anyone help me with a reliable source for the following for as many aircraft as possible:-

Fuel Burn (Metric Ton/Hour) eg. 1.1
Cargo Capacity (Kg) ie 747 = 140,000

Finding out the maximum number of seats before configuring classes is also proving tricky for a lot of aircraft.

The simulation I am working on is going to be available as both an online web based game, and also a standalone Windows application (no net required), and is going to be available free of charge to anyone who wants it. Any help tracking down this type of information will be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Brian

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2213 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3000 times:



Quoting Timebandit (Thread starter):
Fuel Burn (Metric Ton/Hour) eg. 1.1
Cargo Capacity (Kg) ie 747 = 140,000

It is much more complicated than that... fuel burn depends on how much payload you're carrying, how far you're flying, prevailing winds, etc. It is not an intrinsic characteristic of an aircraft. Using fixed parameters as implied above will give erroneous results.

One good way to model performance to first order is to use the Breguet range equation. Study up at MIT:
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FA...ified_Concepts/BreguetNoteseps.pdf

The problem can be made arbitrarily more complicated, the more details you wish to model. Good luck.


User currently offlineTimebandit From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Thanks WingedMigrator

Your quick response is very welcome, as I am trying to move on this very quickly.

The information you pointed me in the direction of, was mind numbingly complicated. My brain just went arghhhhhhh!! Bearing in mind this is a business simulation rather than a flight simulation, I was planning on version one’s flight cost calculations being a little bit simpler. Perhaps in version two I will be able to make use of things like payload combined with some random weather, but for this version I believe that taking the average fuel burn and calculating against flight time will give a good enough approximate fuel cost for this business simulation.

I must point out that I am not an aviation guru. In fact I would put my knowledge only slightly above Mr. Average Public, as I did begin studying for my PPL a million years ago, and enjoy a good flight simulator. I welcome with open arms any input from anyone on this subject, and look forward to a rapid learning curve.

Cheers

Bri


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2966 times:



Quoting Timebandit (Thread starter):
Fuel Burn (Metric Ton/Hour) eg. 1.1
Cargo Capacity (Kg) ie 747 = 140,000

I don't quite understand your assumptions.

But, there is no 744 that can have a payload of 140 tons and a fuel burn of 1.1 tons/ hour. The 744F will tend to maximize payload/range at around 110 +/- tons. The fuel burn again is going to vary quite a bit. During the first hour at high gross weights it's about 17 tons/hour then the next 3-4 hours it will be around 12 tons/hour decreasing down to about 10 tons/hour for the next 3 hours. On a long range sector if you used 10tons/hour that will come pretty close.

However, there are so many variables that go into the calculations. You will really have to plug in more assumptions to get a fairly realistic model.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Cargo capacity depends on how far you want to move that cargo. You can generally fill up on either fuel or cargo, but not both. The more cargo you carry, the less gas you can carry, and vice versa. So you have to make tradeoffs assuming you want to fly XXXX miles nonstop, or you'll have to factor in a tech stop to refuel.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineTimebandit From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Thanks Jhooper

I am on the case now, and believe I have a system for calculating the figures required for the business model. I am however very grateful for the response received from this forum. I am sure there is going to be other helpful information I am going to be returning here for.

Once again; thank you for your assistance


User currently offlineTimebandit From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Ooops missed the reply from PhilSquares. Once again thank you for your offer of help. I realise I have opened a can of worms with this one. I am really enjoying the learning curve on this topic. And the knowledge that this form has is awesome! I can’t that thank you guys enough for taking the time to reply to me. Just to let you know the figures I used in my example were extremely fictitious, and I apologise for throwing you a curve ball.

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6451 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Let me add a few words about cargo capacity. For most cargo planes the max cargo capacity is a theoretical value which seldom can be used. That's because when loaded with that cargo the range will be short. Because the fuel burn will be high and little fuel can be lifted.

If you want to utilize your cargo plane to the maximum from A to B, then you:
- calculate the cruise fuel burn (complicated as you already learned)
- add for taxi, take off and climb
- add for going to your alternate
- add for holding
- (add for expected headwind)
- add security margin according to airline ops rules, often 5 or 10% on top of your total.

Then you add that fuel weight to aircraft empty weight.
That sum you subtract from maximum take off weight (or for some planes max ramp- or taxi-weight).

Now you have a meaningful result, a maximum cargo capacity from A to B.

On many not too short cargo flights you will end up with a max cargo capacity less than half of the max cargo capacity advertised by the aircraft manufacturer.

One exception to that rule is the now shelved A380F. Its theoretical max cargo capacity was planned to be "quite modest" 150 tons or practically no more than the B748F. But with those 150 tons the 380F should be able to fly some 6,000nm, not impressive compared to ultra long range pax planes including the 380 pax, but still a long way from home. And certainly way further than any other cargo plane loaded to max theoretical cargo capacity.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2908 times:



Quoting Timebandit (Reply 2):
I believe that taking the average fuel burn and calculating against flight time will give a good enough approximate fuel cost for this business simulation.

The problem is that the fuel burn is a logarithmic function, so your assumption of burn = rate * time (linear) can be very far from reality under some situations...it might not even be valid for a business simulation where fuel cost is a major part of your total cost.

Tom.


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