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AA - Why Moving Away From Black Nose S80's?  
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

Hey all,

Fairly simple question, on a relatively petty topic, haha. Just wondering why AA has been moving away from the black-noses on the Super 80's. It seems I see less and less of them everytime I'm in DFW:

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Photo © Tony Zeljeznjak
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Photo © Matthew Wallman




So.... why the move away from the look?? I've always *much* preferred the black nose.


A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

I'm pretty sure all the black-nosed MD-80s were from the TWA fleet. AA own fleet of MDs never
had them, as far as I can recall. So I'm assuming here that the black nose are coming off as the
aircraft goes thru heavy maintenance.
And there's no such thing as a "petty topic" here on A.net.
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 11145 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6836 times:



Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure all the black-nosed MD-80s were from the TWA fleet.

I could be wrong, but actually, I believe that all AA MD80s were initially black-nosed. That's how they originally came from McDD back in the '80s and early '90s. I'm not sure why they moved away from them, but my guess is that - by the look of the new nosecones - the material it's made of is some sort of light-weight composite, like the new tailcones that AA has put on all their MD80s. That saves weight = less fuel = cheaper.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3163 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6807 times:



Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure all the black-nosed MD-80s were from the TWA fleet.

I think it might be the other way around, that all AA-delivered MD80's had the black-nose, and the TW repainted birds never got them. The AA S80 pics from the 80's and 90's all have the black nose.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
the material it's made of is some sort of light-weight composite, like the new tailcones that AA has put on all their MD80s. That saves weight = less fuel = cheaper.

Probably the reason, haha. Whatever saves money, I guess... I just love the old look!!



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6760 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I believe that all AA MD80s were initially black-nosed



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3):
that all AA-delivered MD80's had the black-nose

Actually the more I think about it, you both may be right. AA may indeed have all the
black-nosed MDs, while the TWA MDs were painted white when entering service with
American. So when I see a black-nosed MD-80 now, it's an original AA aircraft.
Good catch, guys. Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineSurfrider1978 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Black nose is just plain ugly on the AA birds. I like the new look better. The only plane the black nose looked great on were the 80's/90's scheme MX dc-10's and 727's imo

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

The best black nose was the old Delta black nose on the MD88's, DC9's, and B727's.............AA keep the black nose.

[Edited 2008-02-28 18:17:13]


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6621 times:

The question on top of all this is simply...why? I remember hearing somewhere, a long time ago, that it had to do with the radar. If so, why not all other aircraft? What other reason could there be?

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6561 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7):
a long time ago, that it had to do with the radar.

Actually, that is pretty close... If you look at pictures of DC9s from the 60s, they only made the required paint in black. Now with the advent of different colors, one can paint the nose cone in the same color as the airplane itself.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6548 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 8):
Actually, that is pretty close... If you look at pictures of DC9s from the 60s, they only made the required paint in black. Now with the advent of different colors, one can paint the nose cone in the same color as the airplane itself.

Thats true. Out here IC had their B732s with the Black nose paint on the radome,however since the other paint colours started being developed for Radomes which did not obstruct radar waves,the black nose eventually dissapeared.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

AC's early DC-9s had no black paint on the radome (except for the anti-glare paint below the windscreen that extended slightly onto the radome).


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Photo © Jean-Pierre Bonin
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CO's first DC-9s had black on the tip of the radome, but when they introduced new livery about a year later they eliminated the black. Photos below dated 1967 and 1968.


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Photo © Mel Lawrence



User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1616 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6416 times:
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On some airplanes, the black on the radar dome is a glued on black rubber abrasion boot and that’s what it looks like on the MD-80.

The nose of a radar dome takes a beating due to erosion from hitting rain at 300 or more knots, so sometimes operators will use a rubber boot or a plexiglass cap on the nose of the radar dome to protect it. Radar domes are usually made of layers of fiberglass but nowadays could be made from layers of composites. It could be that AA is now using a strong erosion paint or some other form of erosion protection on the nose of the radar dome.

On fiberglass radar domes, one of the main problems is when the surface becomes porous due to erosion or cracking of the paint, water then can get between the fiberglass layers and freeze up at altitude, effecting the radar returns. If water gets into the fiberglass, then the radar dome has to be removed, and dried out either by baking in an oven or using heat lamps, then sanded down, resealed and repainted, a time consuming process, so the outside of the radar dome must be kept water proof.

I have seen different ways to protect the nose of the radar dome. On the JetStar we had a hell of a time keeping paint on the nose of the radar dome, we used to have to touch it up every couple of months. First we tried a thin rubber cap, but it lasted only a few months, so we finally had a pre molded plexiglass nose cap glued on and that took care of the erosion problem.

Just in case anyone is interested, on the MD-80 radar dome you can see thin strips running from the nose to the back of the radar dome, they are metal strips for lightening protection. Radar can attract lightening and because fiberglass is not an electrical conductor these metal strips provide a path for the current to flow to the rest of the airplane if lightening strikes the radar dome.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6360 times:



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 11):
On fiberglass radar domes, one of the main problems is when the surface becomes porous due to erosion or cracking of the paint, water then can get between the fiberglass layers and freeze up at altitude, effecting the radar returns. If water gets into the fiberglass, then the radar dome has to be removed, and dried out either by baking in an oven or using heat lamps, then sanded down, resealed and repainted, a time consuming process, so the outside of the radar dome must be kept water proof.

Currently there is a Rubber sheath nicknamed "The condom" used on most current day radomes to prevent this type of impact erosion from the Rain.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
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