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Tail Support Assemblies - Type Of Aircraft  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8209 times:

Tail support assemblies or Tail stays used mainly on Freighter & some Pax aircraft to avoid a nose up situation on Ground.
I've seen this on B737 freighters,ATRs & IL62.I think the Sab2000 also had one.

Anyone aware of other types.

regds
MEL


Think of the brighter side!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

We have tailstands on our Learjet's and 727's. We also had them on our Volpar Turbine Beech 18's back when we had them. I've heard the Lear's and Beech's have no real adverse flying effects when you forget to take them off for flight.


On the road seeing other carriers I have seen just about everything else that flies freight with some sort of support, DC-8's, DC-10's and 747's. I think FedEx even ties down the nose gear on some of their planes. I do not recall if their Airbus have any tail support though.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8154 times:



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
and 747's.

Any pic of the B747 Freighter Tail support assembly.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8157 times:

Here you go!

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Kalit...ir/Boeing-747-2B4BM(SF)/0583742/M/

[Edited 2008-03-12 08:35:51]


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8110 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim de Groot - AirTeamImages


Interesting.
There are a few B747 operators that experienced a Nose up Tilt on ground.Wonder why they did not use it.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9815 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
I've seen this on B737 freighters,ATRs & IL62.I think the Sab2000 also had one.

The 737-800 has a tail skid. The 737-800SFP (Short Field Performance) and 737-900ER have a two position tail skid. This is in case a plane hits the tail on the ground while on approach or takeoff. The tail skids aren't necessarily designed for a loading problem on the ground which could cause the airplane to tip.

[Edited 2008-03-12 16:26:00]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8052 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
The 737-800 has a tail skid. The 737-800SFP (Short Field Performance) and 737-900ER have a two position tail skid. This is in case a plane hits the tail on the ground while on approach or takeoff. The tail skids aren't necessarily designed for a loading problem on the ground which could cause the airplane to tip

I think you've got mixed up.The Tail support Assy & tail skid are two different units.
The Tail support assy is to prevent a tilt on ground & is "mostly" detachable.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8047 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):

I think you've got mixed up.The Tail support Assy & tail skid are two different units.
The Tail support assy is to prevent a tilt on ground & is "mostly" detachable.

Indeed. The tail skid is for tail strike protection. The tail support is for imbalance on the ground protection.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDufo From Slovenia, joined May 1999, 810 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8031 times:

Tail support is also available on Let L410 but I have never seen it in use. It is mounted on the ventral fin which also serves as a tail skid.




I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3070 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8023 times:



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
We have tailstands on our Learjet's and 727's.

I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8005 times:

Hi,

Tail stay from a Singapore aircraft.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © René Juncker



B777Neuss


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7950 times:



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):

I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

I always thought that as well, but I don't think that the air stair would be too much help, it could be. I always thought it was more of a ventilation thing to have it open. On our freighters though, just forward of the airstair on the belly, there is a spot for a steel stand that hangs as a tail stand.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7943 times:

ATR's and Saab340's use them as well.

User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7942 times:



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):
I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

When we operated them; our -100's did not have a tail stand, but our -200's did. I always thought it a little strange, because on the -100, the tail stairs did not lock down, but on the -200, they did.

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):

Anyone aware of other types.

A300 operated by UPS.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang




When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7926 times:



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):
I thought common procedure on 727's was to lower the rear air stair for tail support. Is this assembly normally removed during the cargo conversion?

You are correct atleast when I worked at nwa when we had the 727 you always dropped the aft airstairs after arrival for just that purpose. FedEx has the airstairs but also has tailstands in their 727's..



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7922 times:



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 13):

When we operated them; our -100's did not have a tail stand, but our -200's did. I always thought it a little strange, because on the -100, the tail stairs did not lock down, but on the -200, they did.

Perhaps the stretch made the weight distribution more touchy?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7909 times:

My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

I wish that I had a photo.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7856 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 16):
My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

How strong would that box be  Smile

Wish there was a picture.


I think the IL62 has an in built tail support assy which retracts.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7847 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 16):
My uncle, a B-24 aircraft commander in WWII, said that they would jam an ammo box up under the mid section of the airplane, while on the ground, to prevent such upsets.

I've heard this too. My guess is that it was more of a crate than a box, and as such quite strong.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12179 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

We used a tail stand on the KC-135, and IIRC, the DC-8-61F/7-1F/-63F/-73F all used a tail stand, too.

User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7766 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
I've heard this too. My guess is that it was more of a crate than a box, and as such quite strong.

It was a standard steel .50 caliber ammo box; what, you thought it was like something from WalMart?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7757 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 20):
It was a standard steel .50 caliber ammo box

That would be heavy to pull in position unless there are wheels attached  wink 

Is the Tail support Assy mandatory for B747 Freighters.Was wondering cause there have been a few tipping issues on that type in the past.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineN27UADIESEL8 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

I have seen Amerijet use the aft stairs as a kind of tail stand. We at DHL, are forbidden to use the stairs as a tail stand, we have tailstands on the B727 and on the A300 we hold the nose with a tether as a means to hold the nose to the ground.

N27UADIESEL8



Fine Air flight 101 never again..............
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7695 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
Is the Tail support Assy mandatory for B747 Freighters.

It is not mandatory. There are alternate means of maintaining the CG of the aircraft during the load/unload process. This normally involves step-loading/unloading. This involves moving all the freight forward or aft as a unit, more or less. Very time consuming, Side doors are easier than nose loaders, in this respect.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1659 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7665 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
That would be heavy to pull in position unless there are wheels attached wink



It was an EMPTY ammo box.

Sheesh !!!

God save you and your crew, Captain.


25 Post contains images HAWK21M : Thats why the Wink at the end On the B747 Tail support...This type freighter seems to be prone to tipping over a lot. regds MEL
26 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Common on some earlier types also.
27 HAWK21M : The IL62 was Interesting because of the Retracting feature. regds MEL
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