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What Route Requires The Most Fuel?  
User currently offlineCoolGuy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5753 times:

Posts about the longest flight in terms of distance are one thing, but which flight requires the most fuel? For example, two flights traveling 8000nm may require different amounts of fuel due to the temperature in flight, departure runway altitude, long taxi times, etc.

For example, I think that JFK-JNB was nonstop but the other direction could not be since JNB was at a higher altitude and therefore required more fuel on takeoff. So which routes really test out an aircraft's fuel tanks. Long-haul aircraft, of course.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDBCC From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

Airport altitude has nothing to do with the amount of fuel required to take off. Due to density altitude (temperature and altitude of JNB), the flight may be weight restricted.

Like all Westbound flights, you are flying against the westerly prevailing winds/jet steams from JNB-JFK (like Europe to USA East coast). Even an average head-wind of 100knots, on a 14 hour flight makes 1400NM additional air distance.

A tail wind of 100knots on a 14 hour flight reduces the air distance by 1400NM. So one direction the flight is 2 hours longer than the other.

In theory, JNB-JFK could be done without stopping over, at a push, but on an average day, you would be arriving at JFK with very little reserves. Far too dangerous. Once you are over the mid-atlantic, there are not many places to go to fill up without needing a big detour. Point of no-return is quite early in the flight after the African coast is left.

JNB-CPT-MIA was flown from Cape Town to Miami (or FLL) non-stop, but quite often they had to stop over, unscheduled, in the Bahamas due to head winds. Added 90 minutes to the trip.


User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

would guess LAX-SIN going west...

User currently offlineCoolGuy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

JNB-JFK is just one example where it's not only winds but also the altitude. I'm trying to think of ones that stretch the range of an aircraft. That's probably one of them. Probably EWR-SIN too.

User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5369 times:
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Long north-south flights are not as affected by the jet stream prevailing winds as east-west flights are.

User currently offlineJetMech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2699 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5355 times:



Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):

For SYD-LAX non-stop flights ( 6507 nautical miles ), I was regularly loading fuel to an average ramp figure of around 170 tonnes for a 744.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Don't also forget a 744ER will consume more fuel from MEL to LAX than an A345 from SIN to EWR. But then again it carries quite alot more passengers. So the furthest route does not necc consume the most fuel.

User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

how about UA's 744 from ORD - HKG

Whats does that look like?


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

This question isn't much different from which plane has the biggest fuel tanks. Pre A380, that dubious honour went to the 744ER (ERF is unlikely to have full tanks). LAX->MEL is the sector that they are going to be most full. The A380 will most probably take that title when it starts SIN->LHR flights within the week.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9709 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4801 times:



Quoting CoolGuy (Thread starter):
So which routes really test out an aircraft's fuel tanks. Long-haul aircraft, of course.

Actually you are almost never going to see long haul aircraft test out the aircraft's fuel tanks. Long haul airplanes pretty much never go out with full tanks.

However you will see it happening on narrowbodies where there isn't as much tank space. When 737 Classics were being operated on long stage length flights such as US East Coast - West Coast flights, then the actual volume of fuel was a concern. Some planes had auxiliary tanks, but others did not. They could be limited by quantity of fuel and not just weight/payload. The A320 and 737NG have larger tanks, but I think those planes are more likely to be limited based on fuel volume.

And finally fuel volume is only truly a concern on business jets. It is a huge concern on commercial planes turned into business jets like the A320/737 Business Jets. It is a huge debate on how many tanks to put in those planes since they will run out of fuel space during their operating lives.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4776 times:



Quoting DBCC (Reply 1):
Airport altitude has nothing to do with the amount of fuel required to take off.

im not so sure, doesnt airspeed have to be higher in JNB to get altitude than in JFK, given equal tempetrures?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20247 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4750 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):

Actually you are almost never going to see long haul aircraft test out the aircraft's fuel tanks. Long haul airplanes pretty much never go out with full tanks.

Why not?


User currently offlineSurfpunk From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4748 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
However you will see it happening on narrowbodies where there isn't as much tank space.

This is true. While we used to load 400,000+ lbs on 742s from MSP to NRT, they never went out completely full, AFAIK. When NW ran DC9s from MSP to SMF, they would only fly frames fitted with aux tanks, and we would frequently fill those to the gills (each tank to VTO). Although I would also see larger aircraft get filled way high, back when there was a significant enough price difference in fuel between the Midwest and the West Coast to justify the additional burn (50,000+ in a 727, 120,000+ in a DC-10 on routes that normally took 80,000-90,000 lbs).


User currently offlineCoolGuy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4657 times:

I guess the phrasing of my question is wrong. A better way to say it is, which long-haul flights have to be filled to the max.

User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4615 times:



Quoting CoolGuy (Reply 13):

Those B772 ER doing JFK/EWR Asia, ORD-BOM/DEL, LAX-TLV on a B772ER


User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

Don't some flights have to go out with enough fuel to make the return trip due to cost/supply issues at the destination? That might produce a few candidates you wouldn't otherwise consider, though I have no idea which they may be.

User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3574 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4324 times:



Quoting DBCC (Reply 1):
In theory, JNB-JFK could be done without stopping over, at a push, but on an average day, you would be arriving at JFK with very little reserves. Far too dangerous.

Not if you're flying a 772LR.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4324 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
how about UA's 744 from ORD - HKG

Whats does that look like?

Will usually go out full with 382,000Lbs of Fuel, plane is at MTOW 95% of the time.

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineDBCC From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3698 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
Quoting DBCC (Reply 1):
Airport altitude has nothing to do with the amount of fuel required to take off.

im not so sure, doesnt airspeed have to be higher in JNB to get altitude than in JFK, given equal tempetrures?

Airspeed is airspeed, given the same density altitude. A DA is higher in JNB, a slightly higher airspeed will be required, compared to a sea level airport. Also, groundspeed will be higher. But, the additional 10-15 seconds it takes to reach the airspeed on the runway does not make much to the fuel, as at 5'500 feet, you have to climb less to reach FL 310 than from Seal Level.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3454 times:



Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 17):
Quoting OOer (Reply 7):
how about UA's 744 from ORD - HKG

Whats does that look like?

Will usually go out full with 382,000Lbs of Fuel, plane is at MTOW 95% of the time.

Leo

I just flew this route, and that was the longest takeoff roll i have ever experienced. And ive been on some other 744 flights (ORD-AMS, LAX-PPT, etc), so i assumed it must be pretty full. I believe ORD-HKG is the longest 744 flight in the world, correct me if i am wrong.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3406 times:



Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 19):

If you are wrong i guess that only JFK-HKG would be longer on a B744 but not sure is still in fonction


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40036 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

How about the Air Koryo IL-62 flight westbound from Pyongyong, North Korea to Moscow, Russia?


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3316 times:



Quoting YULYMX (Reply 20):

If you are wrong i guess that only JFK-HKG would be longer on a B744 but not sure is still in fonction

No Longer exists Now operated by 3 daily 77W on CX

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 19):
I just flew this route, and that was the longest takeoff roll i have ever experienced. And ive been on some other 744 flights (ORD-AMS, LAX-PPT, etc), so i assumed it must be pretty full. I believe ORD-HKG is the longest 744 flight in the world, correct me if i am wrong.

Yes it is the longest and TO is pretty long because of the high weights, but even at MTOW on most days a de-rated takeoff will be possible, meaning the engines are given a exterior temperature higher then what it really is and so they will output less power on TO but saving unecessary power and so lower fuel burn and engine wear. This of course resulting in a longer TO. And it is very unusual for a plane to go out at max thrust, because it makes no sence to use it when it is nor required.

Just PM me if you would like some more info!

Leo  Smile



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineAruba From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Could a A340-500 do JFK - JNB non stop with out worrying to much about fuel? Because that stop over in Dakar is so anoying. And it seems to take more time than it needs too. Because all that needs to be done is fuel. And cleaning of the aircraft.
Will O.



B738,B752,A310,A319,A321,A343,A346,Dash8,EMB170_JFK,BDL,MBJ,SJU,AUA,DKR,JNB,CPT,HDS,IAD...But South Africa is the best!
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3232 times:



Quoting Aruba (Reply 23):

Could be done, it is 6925 NM and ewr-sin is 8288 nm and done with A345... going back JNB-JFK probably also... maybe B772LR would be better for no restrictions


25 Flighty : Some other likely candidates include: AKL-LAX on A332 SFO-NRT on DC-10 Several B757 ETOPS routes like DTW-BRU, EWR-TXL 777 flights such as EWR-HKG 763
26 JetMech : QF has several non-stop flights a week from SYD-LAX (6507 nm) and MEL-LAX (6883 nm) which would go out with almost full tanks. As I mentioned in repl
27 Starlionblue : CX also uses the 346 on this route.
28 Zvocio79 : how about Santiago, Chile or Buenos Aires, Argentina to Auckland New Zeland????? flying east to west is longer than flying for west to east.....isn't
29 WestJetForLife : Well, I'm not a commercial pilot, but if I may, I would like to add my contribution to this thread using what (limited) knowledge I can scrounge up. I
30 Starlionblue : As I understand it, fuel consumption is high in absolute terms, but in terms of pax/miles it's probably not that bad. Only one take-off/climb in all
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