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How To Transport Shrt-med Rnge A/c To Their Dest?  
User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Not sure if this is in the right forum or if this has been posted before,

but if the medium and short ranged aircraft are built where their manufacturing plants are such as Boeing 737s in Everett and Airbus A320s in Toulouse, how do they get them across the ocean so that jetblue has them or japan airlines...????

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2840 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

If an airplane lacks the range to be delivered to a destination, ferry tanks are used:


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2H4



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User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

North Atlantic via Canada Iceland Ireland.

North Pac via Alaska Midway Japan

Island hopping, it's for more than just invasions.


User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

To add what is already out there.

An airliner's range increases dramatically when the plane is being flown empty as it would on delivery flights.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

They just fly them.... there is no where on this planet that 95% of the aircraft ever built can't reach.......even small private aircraft. Ferry tanks, Island hopping.............etc
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Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 3):
An airliner's range increases dramatically when the plane is being flown empty as it would on delivery flights.

Agreed.. I've done well over 5 hours in a Saab 340... and that was with no special tanks and headed south-westbound.

[Edited 2008-03-28 12:54:32]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2413 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2796 times:
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Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
They just fly them.... there is no where on this planet that 95% of the aircraft ever built can't reach.......even small private aircraft. Ferry tanks, Island hopping.............etc

That may be a little optimistic for some of the island destinations. While light aircraft have been flow, for example, to Hawaii with ferry tanks, it's still a really long grueling flight (on the order of 19 hours in a 172 - which has actually been done). And you probably get to start with an overweight takeoff. For most small aircraft it's much simpler (and cheaper) to just unbolt the wings and put the thing on a boat.

OTOH, to most places it's no problem. To cross the Atlantic you need only about 750nm range (and none of the overwater portions are more than 500nm).


User currently offlineLockstockNL777 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2790 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 1):

BTW, how are the ferry tanks connected to the fuel system? Do they just fill up the main tanks during flight? And if so, is this done continously or at certain moments?

Thanks!!


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

I can't see any one going to the expense of adding ferry tanks to an aircraft they are going to store/scrape. I know one North American operator that removed all the avionics and flew their aircraft to the desert VFR.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17180 posts, RR: 66
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2742 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Thread starter):
Boeing 737s in Everett and Airbus A320s in Toulouse, how do they get them across the ocean so that jetblue has them or japan airlines...????

For those particular aircraft, range is not an issue. They can easily do the Atlantic with one stop if flown empty with full tanks. Of course, you can't do an ETOPS flight typically so the route is a bit longer. For the Pacific, they might need two stops, going the long way around Alaska and Japan.

Note that if an airliner has max payload you typically can't fill the tanks because you would exceed MTOW by a wide margin. This is another factor making ferry range dramatically more than service range.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5827 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2699 times:



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 5):
While light aircraft have been flow, for example, to Hawaii with ferry tanks, it's still a really long grueling flight (on the order of 19 hours in a 172 - which has actually been done).

Actually Cessna 172s and other light aircraft are flown from SFO to SYD via Hawaii and other Pacific Islands on a quite regular basis.

Quoting LockstockNL777 (Reply 6):
BTW, how are the ferry tanks connected to the fuel system? Do they just fill up the main tanks during flight? And if so, is this done continously or at certain moments?

Depends on the aircraft type and ferry tank system fitted. I have seen a system on high wing Cessnas where the ferry tanks are plumbed into the regular fuel system near the tank selector on the forward cabin floor, so I would assume its direct to the engine in that case.


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRendezvous From New Zealand, joined May 2001, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2647 times:

If it's a delivery flight, does it still need to follow ETOPs?

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5827 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2621 times:



Quoting Rendezvous (Reply 10):
If it's a delivery flight, does it still need to follow ETOPs?

Short answer - no.
Some what longer answer, the ferry flight occurs under what ever conditions the airworthiness authority of the aircrafts country of registration allows. So if your authority permits it, any rule can be by passed. Ferry flight often operate above normal MTOW, for example.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Island hopping was my first thought. Ferry tanks is new to me.

thanks for the feedback!
phileet92


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2466 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
North Pac via Alaska Midway Japan

I believe many 737s being delivered to Japan and Asia are routed via HNL. You'll find numerous photos in the database of such aircraft at HNL on their delivery flights.


User currently offlineAbqwildcat From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Just wanted to point out - B737s are built in Renton, WA at Boeing's narrow-body assembly plant, not at Everett in Boeing's wide-body assembly plant.

[Edited 2008-03-29 22:00:41]

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2402 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 12):
Ferry tanks is new to me.

Ferry Tanks go back to the days of Charles Lindbergh....



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2228 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 12):
Ferry tanks is new to me.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N388AE



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2210 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 12):
Ferry tanks is new to me.

Ferry Tanks go back to the days of Charles Lindbergh....

Photos of ferry tanks installed on a B717 prior to the delivery flight to HA.


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