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NO Alternate IFR Operations  
User currently offlineJETSET From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 351 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

I have a question for the Flight Dispatchers out there.

On a typical average day with no significant weather to effect the flights or ATC
what is the percent of flights landing at your hubs are going No Alternate IFR.

Part 2 of the question

If operating under No Alternate IFR how much holding fuel do you add when landing at the hub at hub time.

Would like to hear from if possible the following
CO ref Ewr ops
DL ref ATL ops
UA ref ORD ops
NW ref MSP ops
US ref Phl ops
AA ref DFW ops


Rgds/Jetest

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6028 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3484 times:



Quoting JETSET (Thread starter):
On a typical average day with no significant weather to effect the flights or ATC
what is the percent of flights landing at your hubs are going No Alternate IFR.

If the forecast calls for 10 and clear all day, then 100% are going without alternates. The actual percentage depends on what the forecast calls for.

Quoting JETSET (Thread starter):
If operating under No Alternate IFR how much holding fuel do you add when landing at the hub at hub time.

If the airport is not over capacity for the time of arrival, why add fuel that's not required? However, if it is over capacity, then I will generally add 10-15 minutes' worth. They most likely won't use it, but it's there if they have to. Also, there's usually some amount of contingency fuel that they can burn into as well, and the reserve—if needed.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

This month of the many flights I've flown, only two or three have required an alternate due to weather. One required a takeoff alternate due to low visibility and ceilings at the departure airport and the ones required destination alternates because the weather failed the 1-2-3 rule, but really wasn't that bad.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3297 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 2):
One required a takeoff alternate due to low visibility and ceilings at the departure airport

To this uninformed observer, the term "takeoff alternate" sounds a bit odd. It's not as if a plane can taxi up the interstate from BWI to PHL to take off if BWI is fogged in. What does this term mean?


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3292 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 3):
To this uninformed observer, the term "takeoff alternate" sounds a bit odd. It's not as if a plane can taxi up the interstate from BWI to PHL to take off if BWI is fogged in. What does this term mean?

We are required to have a takeoff alternate in the event we have an engine failure on takeoff. In these situations, the weather at the departure airport is too low to successfully complete an instrument approach, but high enough that one can safely takeoff.

A takeoff alternate must be withing one hour flying time on a single engine.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6028 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3281 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 4):
A takeoff alternate must be withing one hour flying time on a single engine.

Or two hours on aircraft with more than two engines.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3243 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 4):
We are required to have a takeoff alternate in the event we have an engine failure on takeoff. In these situations, the weather at the departure airport is too low to successfully complete an instrument approach, but high enough that one can safely takeoff.

A takeoff alternate must be withing one hour flying time on a single engine.

Checko



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
Or two hours on aircraft with more than two engines.

I see. So, theoretically, if a big storm hit the Hawaiian islands, for example, that was bad enough to close all airports for arrival, nobody could take off?


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3206 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 6):
I see. So, theoretically, if a big storm hit the Hawaiian islands, for example, that was bad enough to close all airports for arrival, nobody could take off?

Its a bit far fetched, however, yes, that would be true.



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3191 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 7):
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 6):
I see. So, theoretically, if a big storm hit the Hawaiian islands, for example, that was bad enough to close all airports for arrival, nobody could take off?

In this case, aircraft would be dispatched using island reserve.
Been there, done that, and yes it works quite well.
Must be used with caution however, least you be SOL.


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3161 times:



Quoting 411A (Reply 8):
In this case, aircraft would be dispatched using island reserve.
Been there, done that, and yes it works quite well.
Must be used with caution however, least you be SOL.

Does that apply to a destination alternate or a takeoff alternate.

Yes, it's far fetched to think that every airport in Hawaii would be below mins, but its an interesting academic exercise.



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25356 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

As far as alternates, weather permitting idea is to operate as many flights a possible without listing one.

Carrying needless extra fuel is the equivalent of adding non revenue producing payload on a flight which only increases its overall fuel burn and cost.

Practically speaking, most the US is so densely populated with airports in case of the need for an unexpected diversion the fuel on board should safely allow finding a nearby suitable airport anyhow really.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3125 times:



Quoting 411A (Reply 8):
In this case, aircraft would be dispatched using island reserve.
Been there, done that, and yes it works quite well.
Must be used with caution however, least you be SOL.

Okay, I'll bite.

What is island reserve?


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3081 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 11):
What is island reserve?

Dispatch to a destination airport (such as a Pacific island) where no alternate is available.
Fuel requirements...

Normal trip fuel
Contingency fuel

plus

two hours fuel, at normal cruising altitude/speed.

Special destination weather conditions/forecast must prevail as well.
PanAmerican required 1000-3 for the entire period, as I recall.


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