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Turboprop Start Sequence And Control Functions  
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 21992 times:

OK.. can anyone explain to me what each lever does on a turbo prop (I am personally thinking of a King Air 200-but any turbo prop will do) throttle quadrant... and the start sequence. I was messing around in a King Air 200 PCATD by myself the other day at this flight training school.. got the thing running after a couple hot starts. It seemed as though the condition levers when just passed the idle detent would spool up the Nt turbines..just the overall response wasnt what i was trying to get from the engines. Anyhoo...

I know the condition has to do with the fuel flow, prop controls prop speed, and throttle controls the torque... This is the only type of plane that i havent had any experience in.. and it has been so long for my dad...and the C-130 was a unique kind of turbo prop.. so he wasnt much help with m questions.


Chicks dig winglets.
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline242 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21961 times:

It's been almost two years since I've started an EMB-120 with P&W 1800 engines, so I'm a little fuzzy, but here goes:

1. complete prestart checklist (ignition set to auto, fuel pumps set etc.)
2. Check the current draw, you need less than 120 amps.
3. engage starter (electric)
4. let engine spool to about 15% N2
5. Move condition lever from fuel cut-off to feather (adds fuel)
6. engine should light off and starter should disengage at about 50% N2
7. watch T6, 840 deg is your start limit
8. Fuel flow, don't really remember - 100 pph?
9. torque- not exactly critical at this point, it might jump up to 20% on start, just make sure it dosen't go past 100%
10. once the engine is at idle speed with the prop feathered, you should be able to bring the generator on line and observe hydaulic pressure from the engine driven pump.

Anyone with E120 experinece is welcome to correct anything, I haven't cranked one up in a while.


User currently offlineTT737FO From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21959 times:

When you start a PT-6 for the first time, it's pretty hard not to get a hot start.

(1). What we always looked for was the battery condition as our number one item. If at all possible, we would try to use ground power to save battery power in cold Wisconsin/Wyoming/Colorado weather--the realm of the Laker 1900s. Most books will tell you that wear and tear on batteries will take a toll on the engines.

(2). Select the 250 amp starter/generator (right) to "start" and the igniters kick in. When N1 reaches 15%, then move the condition lever from cut-off to LOW IDLE.

(3). This introduces the fuel. ITT and rpm should come up.

(4). MONITOR. At 50% N1, disengage the starter. Note the temp (neighborhood of 700c--it redlines at 800).

(5). Bring the condition lever into high idle (once you're sure temp is stable), and bring up the right generator to recharge the battery.

If you recognize a hot start, the best deal is to avoid it early as possible and abort. If you get a hot start in the 1900, you need to clear the engine.


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21950 times:

Ahhh.. i see.. i was disengaging the starters late... i was jiggling the condition lever to vary the fuel flow to avoid a hot start. Thanks a bunch fellas.


Another question... what is the role of the condition levers at various phases in flight?



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineWilky From New Zealand, joined May 2000, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 21940 times:

Hi there XFSUgimpLB41X,

In reply to your comment about the C130 being unique kind of turbo-prop, I won't disagree, but reading the other posts, it seems a hell of a lot simpler. Ensure the low speed ground idle (LSGI) button is pushed, put the condition lever in run, hit the starter and release at 60% and engine will run up to 70&. Then when you're ready to taxi pull the LSGI button out, and the engine runs up to 100%, from there just use the power lever. As for the position options for the condition lever there are just 4, air start, run, ground stop, and feather.

Wilky


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2573 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21929 times:

Not all turboprops are the same. The Garrett 331 is very different from the PT6. Garretts don't have a condition lever.

Start seq.
1.prestart checklist.
2.push start button and hold until rise in egt.
3.watch rpm rise through critical range( 18-28%)
4.If start slows more fuel can be added by MOMENTRALLY pressing start button.
5.mointor start temp Max EGT 770.
6.after reaching stablized EGT and rpm~97% retard power lever to reverse to disengage start locks on prop.

I had to check the book. I haven't started one in almost 4 years.


User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 21930 times:

The Saab has CT-75A2 on the A models and CT7-8bs on the B model and they are both started the same way.

You finish the inspection and the before start checklists. You start with the condition lever in the fuel off position and the ignitor off. Check the volts to make sure you have 24V if a battery start, 28V if doing a start off of the other engine generator, or 28V if external power cart, the preffered way. First you hit the start swiitch towards the side you want to start and hold it until you reach 20% Ng, at this time if the ITT is below 175 degrees Cyou select the condition lever to start and turn the ignitor to normal. This must be done by 30 seconds or you have to abort.

After that check to make sure you get fuel flow and oil pressure, light off should come almost immediately afterwards. Just monitor to make sure ITT stays below 960 in the A model and 965 in the B model. Starter should cut out and at 55% Ng. This must occur before 70 seconds from beginning the start or you have to abort. At this point you reset and turn the generator on, it'll come on in about 10-15 seconds once above 60% Ng, turn the bleed valve and rec fan for the engine on, and make sure you are now getting Volts off of the generator before truning the ground power off.

There is an autostart procedure where you start with the ignitor in the normal position and the condition lever in the start. Just hit the start switch at that time and leave everything alone, unless any parameters are exceeded and then abort. This usually resulted in a lot hotter starst so our company prefers we don't do them.

As for inflight the condition lever is just like the prop control on a piston powered aircraft. We use it to control the props. Take off is at 1396, along with landings, and climb is either 1270 or 1230 and cruise is 1230 prop rpms.

Hope this helps. How did the training go? Get everything completed?


User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21916 times:

The PT6 on the King Air 200 is normally started with the Prop Lever in full fine. Running the engines in feather causes milling of hot exhaust gasses on the cockpit side windows and first passenger windows.
The above descriptions are accurate however.
As for the condition levers, on the average flight once moved in to low idle for start the lever isn't touched again until shut down (gated to prevent inadvertant move into cut off). The high position is used when maximum reverse is required after touchdown. By retaining a higher idle speed the blades can move more rapidly from the flight stop to full reverse after touchdown, then the condition levers are retarded to prevent a power surge when the blades are returned to ground idle for taxi.
Hope this helps  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 21702 times:

What about the ATR-72? That's my favorite tubo-prop.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 21610 times:

The PT-6s on YR's Twin Otters were pretty simple to start too. Again a case of hazy memory - it's been 12 years:  Smile

Power levers - idle
Prop levers - fine pitch (high RPM)
Fuel levers - cutoff (there was no low or high - just on or cutoff)
Generators - off
Use ground power if available
Move start switch to right engine and hold
Verify reverse current relay light, engine rotation, oil pressure
At a stable 20% RPM move right fuel lever to on
Watch for overtemp
Release start switch at 50% RPM
Repeat for the left side
Pull left prop into feather and signal for ground power disconnect
Switch power to ship's battery
When the ramper is clear from behind the left engine return left prop to fine pitch
Bring both engines to idle+15% then bring both generators on
Verify charge currents then bring both engines back to idle
Turn on both buses and with avionics power now on, run the after start checklist



"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 21388 times:

Dash 8 is a lot like the Brasilia.
Batts on, start the APU or accept ground power. Make sure batt voltage is above 22V. My start flow I check the warning panel (make sure the doors are closed before spinning #1), beacon on, recirc fan off, APU bleed off, ignition to normal, then select the starter switch to the engine I want to start. The start button is then active, press it. Watch for Nh rise, and at 15% bring the condition lever to start / feather. Watch for ITT rise. If it goes above 840 and keeps climbing, abort the start. At 64% Nh, the starter will cut out and the DC generator will function. For starting the #1 engine, ensure the battery load is below 50%, rinse and repeat.

After the start, bring the condition levers to min, turn on the AC generators. The power levers will now be controlling the blade angle while in disc (beta).


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 791 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 21347 times:



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 10):
After the start, bring the condition levers to min, turn on the AC generators.

Out of curiousity, I'm assuming your SOP's called for the AC Gen's to be turned off at some point. Any particular reason why? At my airline those switches are always on. Don't see any real purpose for taking them off. The AC Gen's don't come on-line till the Condition Levers are out of Start/Feather.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 21285 times:



Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 11):

Out of curiousity, I'm assuming your SOP's called for the AC Gen's to be turned off at some point. Any particular reason why? At my airline those switches are always on. Don't see any real purpose for taking them off. The AC Gen's don't come on-line till the Condition Levers are out of Start/Feather.

I know... We were taught to turn them on when the props were above 780 RPM on the start, and turn them off after the props were brought into feather on the shut down. The company's reasoning was that it placed undo stress on the GCUs. We dis all sorts of strange stuff there. Left the flaps at 5 while on the ground, prop sync off while reducing from 1050 to 900, no bleeds for takeoff / landing, etc... There's at least a hundred other ways to fly that airplane.


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