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What Is A CJ 6 Engine?  
User currently offlineLearjet23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8543 times:

As I understand it, it was the early Learjet engine and is now outlawed in the states because it is so earsplitting loud. Is this the reason so many old biz jets have been junked? How much would it cost to somehow make this thing quite down? Why was it Ok years ago but so forbidden now? I saw a learjet on ebay for only $200.000 and the remarks were that it had these motors and they would need to be replaced in order to fly the plane again. I am not a well read avation person, but this really interests me.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8549 times:

It was the GE CJ610 that powered the Lear 23, along with the lear 24, 25, 28, and 29, as well as the Hansa Jet, and the Aero Commander 1121. This engine is still very much alive in the US, as it is based on the J-85, and engine that is used in the T-38, T-37, CT-114, and Scaled Composites White Knight.

I am interested in knowing where you heard it is outlawed...

Kris



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User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1586 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8543 times:

The engine you are talking about is GE's CJ-610. The CJ-610-4's were the original engine on the 23, most 20-series Lears today are powered by CJ-610-6's which put out 2950#'s of thrust and easily exceed 100 decibels on takeoff and the CJ-610-8A are the best ones, rated up to FL510 but just as loud. I think the company record for a noise violation is up over 110 decibels.

Nope, it isn't outlawed in the US, they are in Europe for the most part. I flew a Lear 25 today for the first time in about a year and as I pushed the throttles up on takeoff I remembered just how loud they are. There are a few airports that ban them at night in the US but you are good to go in the US with them. It is the CJ-610 engine that also powered some other bizjets. 20-series are considered Stage 2 unless you have the "fast wing" on them, then they are considered Stage 1. 30 series have TFE-731 motors on them and are Stage 3 although you can still set off noise sensors.

A side note, the 610 was originally designed as the engine to power long range missiles for a one time use. They are still going strong 45 years later still powering 20-series Learjets. It's a nearly bullet-proof engine that loves to suck down fuel but is more reliable than anything else out there.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8539 times:



Quoting Learjet23 (Thread starter):
As I understand it, it was the early Learjet engine and is now outlawed in the states because it is so earsplitting loud.

Very loud-yes. Outlawed, no. Marshalling an aircraft powered by the CJ-610 in my lineboy days definitely required the ear protectors...those and the Mitsubishi MU-2's (not sure which engine the MU-2's used).

Quoting Learjet23 (Thread starter):
Is this the reason so many old biz jets have been junked?

Learjets and Cessna Citations seem to be the exception to this...but I get the feeling that half of bizjet ownership is the "mine is better than yours" syndrome  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Mitsubishi MU-2's (not sure which engine the MU-2's used).

TPE 331 Garrett...

LOUD too...

[Edited 2008-04-15 21:27:58]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8490 times:



Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 1):
I am interested in knowing where you heard it is outlawed...

The engine isn't outlawed per se, but if you use them on your airplane you'll run afoul of noise restrictions in a number of places.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLearjet23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8414 times:

Someone said the cost of putting brand new jets on and old learjet could cost one million dollars alone, exceeding the putright perchase price of a used lear without these engines... $1.000.000.00 for these tiny tubes? How much is the CJ-6 engine in good shape worth that came with say a lear 23?

User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8370 times:



Quoting Learjet23 (Reply 6):
How much is the CJ-6 engine in good shape worth that came with say a lear 23?

Here, this should give you a rough idea on the cost of a CJ610... www.whiteindustries.com/Turbojet.htm While not a true representation of the cost of a overhauled engine, it is still good for ballparking the price.

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8361 times:



Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 7):
Here, this should give you a rough idea on the cost of a CJ610... www.whiteindustries.com/Turbojet.htm While not a true representation of the cost of a overhauled engine, it is still good for ballparking the price.

Kris

Wow, is that with a core exchange? If not, an overhauled CJ610 could be had for not much more than a new from factory Lycoming or Continental...  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1522 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

Looks like Doug Kalitta is selling overhauled CJ-610s for 170,000-250,000.

http://www.dkturbines.com/


User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8342 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Wow, is that with a core exchange? If not, an overhauled CJ610 could be had for not much more than a new from factory Lycoming or Continental...

I believe that the engines sold by White Industries are mostly all timed out.... But none the less, it would be interesting to buy one and try to mount it to a Cessna!  idea 

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1586 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8246 times:



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 9):
Looks like Doug Kalitta is selling overhauled CJ-610s for 170,000-250,000.

We do in fact have the largest selection of CJ-610 and CF-700 engines and engine parts in the world! A few years back some timed out cores went for $10k each at an auction.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
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