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American MD-80 Vs. Alaska MD-80  
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

I dont hang around this forum that much, so dont flip out when I ask this.  Wink I just had a simple question. When I am spotting, I noticed that AS MD-80's take much less runway than AA MD-80's, even when both planes are full. Why is this, do they use different engines?

Heres some examples.

This Alaska MD-83 uses maybe half of the runway.


These American MD's use about 3/4's of it (a few times Ive seen rotations only 500 ft from the end of the runway).


Thanks!

KPDX  Smile


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2331 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.


There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3414 times:



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.

Wow, didn't even think about that. Stupid me, thanks!



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineMQTmxguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3375 times:



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
If you are spotting from PDX, it's probably because the AA aircraft are used on longer routes. Therefore, they need more fuel, which adds weight and makes for a longer take-off roll. AA flies to ORD and DFW, which are farther than any destination AS serves directly from PDX with a Mad Dog, I believe.

Very true. In addition the AA birds might be using a lower thrust setting, also for fuel conservation.



Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
User currently offlineLeftCoaster From Cayman Islands, joined Nov 2007, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

Maybe average AA fliers are "heaftier" than Alaskas??

 Smile


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5731 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3123 times:



Quoting LeftCoaster (Reply 4):
Maybe average AA fliers are "heaftier" than Alaskas??

Are you kidding? You've clearly never been to Alaska.

Haha, yes, I just went there.


Anyhow, as far as thrust settings go, the JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced.


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2968 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Anyhow, as far as thrust settings go, the JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced.

AA MD80s utilize Assumed Temp method of derate to obtain reduced thrust takeoff settings.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlinePDXCessna206 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Probably fuel and payload differences and maybe takeoff thrust settings as set by airline protocol?

Regardless, they are amazing to watch flying over my house 20 miles SE of Portland. Amazingly loud. I love it.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2905 times:



Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
Wow, didn't even think about that. Stupid me, thanks!

Nah, not stupid. But AA's PDX-ORD and PDX-DFW are long range flights for this plane (too long for comfort, in my experience).

AS doesn't fly their MD80s long range anymore. That's what the 737NG are for.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2769 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
PDX-DFW are long range flights for this plane (too long for comfort, in my experience).

Yea, I've flown PDX-DFW about 10 times in the Maddog and it is definetly not the best experience but flying, nevertheless.  Smile



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineDinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1059 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 2505 times:

When offered, the AA MD-80's will sometimes take the shorter runway here in PDX. Always depends on the winds. They really use the entire runway when they use the shorter of the 2!


Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2475 times:



Quoting Dinker225 (Reply 10):
When offered, the AA MD-80's will sometimes take the shorter runway here in PDX. Always depends on the winds. They really use the entire runway when they use the shorter of the 2!

Yep! Seen them do that a few times.  Smile Pretty exciting to watch.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2459 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
JT-8D-200s aren't FADEC, so I don't think they'd use an alternate takeoff thrust setting.... not quite that advanced

One doesn't need a computer to add, subtract, multiply or divide . It just makes it easier. We were manually charting reduced thrust takeoffs for B-727-100 and DC-9-10 using the very manual, very non-digital JT8D-1 through -7 engines. Can't speak for earlier jet ops like the 707 but tables and run-around graphs have been around longer than jets have. Pencils predate diodes.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
One doesn't need a computer to add, subtract, multiply or divide .

ZING!

Way to go Captain Click! Put those young'uns in their place. I had to learn to do math with paper, pencil and the computer between my ears! You young'uns with your newfangled calcu-laters should try it .


Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

[Edited 2008-04-29 08:01:50]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2433 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand

well weren't the original computers just basically E6-B's or similar so I suppose a "computer" would simply be a device capable of semi-basic calculations. I could be way off but thats just a guess.


User currently offlineMQTmxguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2384 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
Extra credit for anyone under the age of 50 who posts the original meaning of the word computer, with a brief explanation in your own words about why this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

Basically anything that can extrapolate or manipulate data within a given set of constants, variables, and parameters.

It is relevant because aircraft crews had most of the same options and abilities before FADECs, ADCs, FMS, EICAS, etc. The only difference is they had to apply a little more brain power and effort to achieve them. However these skills are still relevant because any man-made device can and will fail, leaving you with only your wits, skills, and that "computer between your ears".

Do I win?



Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]

User currently offlineMQTmxguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2371 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]

Aww crap I think I lose



Well at least we can all take comfort in the fact that NW will never retire their DC-9s
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2337 times:



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Oh noes, here comes the geek... "computer" is a 17th century english word for a person who performs mathmatical calculations. It can be traced backwards to the latin word "computare": To count. It's relevant to the discussion because in it's original definition, pilots are computers. [/geek]

Correct! Have a gold star.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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