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If You Were To Put Water In Tires?  
User currently offlineThreeFourThree From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11257 times:

What would happen if you water instead of air inside an airplane tire, even like a car or bike tire?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2353 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11223 times:
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They'd be really heavy. The ride and handling would be terrible. And you'd probably blow the rim seals or valve stem seat at the first medium sized pothole or bump, if you don't flatly blow the sidewalls off the rim instead.

If you hit a big enough bump at a high enough speed, you might actually get the sidewall to burst.

And you'd probably get a major talking to and/or spanking, for having done such a foolish thing...  Wink


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6758 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11200 times:



Quoting ThreeFourThree (Thread starter):
What would happen if you water instead of air inside an airplane tire, even like a car or bike tire?

It could well be a little dangerous if you overcooked the brakes.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11195 times:

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 2):
It could well be a little dangerous if you overcooked the brakes.

There would be plenty of water to put out the fire/cool of the brakes   

/Lars

[Edited 2008-05-15 03:26:40]


139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11162 times:

Liquids do not compress. The only cushion would come from the softness of the rubber. If you had any sort of air pocket that allowed the water to slosh, you would not be able to balance it properly and would probably wear out the wheel bearings quickly.


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1480 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11120 times:

And when you take off and the water freezes due to extreme cold in the wheel well you might also be sorry. Aviation tyres are amazing items, going from freezing cold to really, really hot in seconds.

User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11115 times:



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 4):
Liquids do not compress

Exactly. Water will not compress, while air can. If you deform the water filled tire enough to cause the displacement of said water to exceed the volume available, you'll either leak out through the bead ( tire/wheel seal ) or burst the tire.


User currently offlineNomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11060 times:

You best figure the gyro factor. It's would be pretty hard to turn a wheel that massive when it's spinning at high speed. The centrifigul force would probably be enough to seperate the tire from the bead even without hitting any bumps.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6398 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10988 times:



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 8):
You best figure the gyro factor. It's would be pretty hard to turn a wheel that massive when it's spinning at high speed. The centrifigul force would probably be enough to seperate the tire from the bead even without hitting any bumps.

Aww, man. I'm still wondering why World War II fighters didn't use rotary engines  old 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10910 times:



Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 6):
xactly. Water will not compress, while air can. If you deform the water filled tire enough to cause the displacement of said water to exceed the volume available, you'll either leak out through the bead ( tire/wheel seal ) or burst the tire.

Isn't Nitrogen used? I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames  bomb   covereyes   flamed 



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6924 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10895 times:

Tractor tires typically use a calcium chloride solution for weight. They leave about 25% of the volume for air to provide cushioning. They do not perform at all well at speed, as anyone who has driven a tractor on the road can tell you. But seeing as how more weight is the last thing that an airplane needs, it makes just as much sense as to build the plane out of lead.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6398 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10891 times:



Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
Isn't Nitrogen used? I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

It depends. I'm sure airliners and other jets use nitrogen, however I have filled Cessna tires myself when they are low with lowly air...I know that some mechanics will fill GA plane tires with nitrogen, however I don't think it's as critical on GA planes as it is on jets...  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10819 times:

Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
sn't Nitrogen used?

Yup, for a couple of reasons. Firstly if plain air was pumped into the tyres (approx 20% O2 content) it would increase the rate of oxidation of the tyre, weakening it substantially. Nitrogen is inert and therefore won't oxidise the tyres.

Air also carries a relatively high amount of moisture, allowing this to freeze inside the tyre at the low temps experienced at altitude could result in destabilising the wheel or lacerating the tyre itself on landing... now imagine if it was all water/ice in there!

[Edited 2008-05-15 18:18:03]


Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10795 times:

Ok, Thanks KelpKid and JER757, thats what I was thinking Big grin
Rgrds



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10774 times:



Quoting JER757 (Reply 15):
Yup, for a couple of reasons. Firstly if plain air was pumped into the tyres (approx 20% O2 content) it would increase the rate of oxidation of the tyre, weakening it substantially. Nitrogen is inert and therefore won't oxidise the tyres.

Air also carries a relatively high amount of moisture, allowing this to freeze inside the tyre at the low temps experienced at altitude could result in destabilising the wheel or lacerating the tyre itself on landing... now imagine if it was all water/ice in there!

Here is a better reason to use N2 in aircraft tires. I believe a 727 and all on board were lost due to a tire explosion years ago.


User currently offlineThreeFourThree From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10724 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Tractor tires typically use a calcium chloride solution for weight

It's funny you say that because today in school, did a chemical reaction between calcium carbonate and hydrochloric acid which produced Calcium chloride + Water + Carbon Dioxide.

So if you put water in, its not a good idea at all I guess


User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10723 times:

What about air in the shockstrut? According to the jobguide I had to extend the shockstrut and then fill in nitrogen , but that would allow some air into the strut. It's a recent change to the jobguide.

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
Isn't Nitrogen used?

Yes it is Mr Hairsplitter Smile For the purposes of this discussion, I believe the generic term "air" is just fine insofar as nitrogen is compressible as well.

[Edited 2008-05-17 17:49:17]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

What about corrosion issues with the Wheel hub assy from the Water.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10248 times:



Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 17):
Yes it is Mr Hairsplitter 

Well great, thanks  Wink Now I'm a hairsplitter...whatever will i do?  Wink
lol,, sorry, i like details  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineAer lingus From Ireland, joined Mar 2001, 529 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10086 times:

I think solid rubber tyres is the solution.
It will never go flat, never burst and it lasts very long too I suppose.
But then theres a problem, weight.
How come everything has a disadvantage?

 bigthumbsup 



Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10060 times:



Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 9):
I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

Aaaah NO.... Nitrogen is used as it contains no water and will not corrode the wheel hubs... plus nitrogen does not react to temprature changes as 'air' does. ...and how can 'air' burst into flames without a fuel source...???



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6398 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10040 times:



Quoting Aer lingus (Reply 20):
I think solid rubber tyres is the solution.
It will never go flat, never burst and it lasts very long too I suppose.
But then theres a problem, weight.
How come everything has a disadvantage?

Another problem would be the high gyroscopic forces of the large amounts of rotating mass...in that sense, not much different from the problems posed by water, although perhaps solid rubber would weigh far less  Wink

You would probably have to re-tread solid rubber quite often, too...those water grooves are there on aircraft tires for a reason-to prevent hydroplaning.

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Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9880 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 21):
Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 9):
I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

Aaaah NO.... Nitrogen is used as it contains no water and will not corrode the wheel hubs... plus nitrogen does not react to temprature changes as 'air' does. ...and how can 'air' burst into flames without a fuel source...???

Aaaah yes.

Rubber outgases when it gets hot. Some of the outgas compounds are flammable. If you have air in the tires, you end up with a hot mixture of flammable gas and oxygen when taxing at high gross weights. Airplane tires have exploded for this very reason. Fill the tire with nitrogen and you have an inert environment, hence no boom.

Tom.


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

Hell, why don't we mandate tires filled with concrete? In fact, we could eliminate the rubber, altogether, and have the same tires on airplanes as Barney has on his car in The Flintstones; solid granite.

That would be the same as filling tires with water.

Go ahead and try this with your car; get back to us with the results and tell us if your insurance company covered the damage.


User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 9627 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 23):
Aaaah yes.

Rubber outgases when it gets hot. Some of the outgas compounds are flammable. If you have air in the tires, you end up with a hot mixture of flammable gas and oxygen when taxing at high gross weights. Airplane tires have exploded for this very reason. Fill the tire with nitrogen and you have an inert environment, hence no boom.

Thanks, I probably would have said that, just a little less technical  highfive 



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
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