Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 182 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3674 times:
You'll be able to find pictures of the C/B panels but not the C/B's that are located on that panel.
The WDM carries a list of all the C/B's. The list includes the panel, the location and the wiring diagram the C/B relates to but it is not a pictorial list.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9996 posts, RR: 79 Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3625 times:
Good luck.
Back when we were still teaching stuff like that to pilots I had to catch the "standard type" aircraft on the ramp so I could sit in the cockpit and map the CB panels. Then I had to create drawings of them in Coreldraw, all appropriately labeled for student handouts.
Not seen as a high priority anymore. If a procedure requires a pilot to pull a CB it will tell you which one and where it is located.
I sure would have thought your manuals would have such a thing.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Fr8mech From United States, joined Sep 2005, 1561 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3595 times:
You're absolutely correct. Try a training manual for anything more specific. Or use the WDM or SSM for cross reference. Boeing does a good job of getting you right where you need to be when hunting for c/b's and relays.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27758 posts, RR: 61 Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3557 times:
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 5): Try a training manual for anything more specific.
The Training manuals,WDM,SSM do not have a pictoral view of the P11.
I'm personally very surprised that Boeing did not consider this sketch.
Hows it on other Aircraft manufactured types?
regds
MEL.
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 182 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3550 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6): The Training manuals,WDM,SSM do not have a pictoral view of the P11.
I'm personally very surprised that Boeing did not consider this sketch.
I think this is because every aircraft is made to the specification of the airline that orders it from the production line. This together with improvements to the aircraft design throughout manufacture will mean that there are subtle differences in the layout of the C/B panels on just about every aircraft made.
T prop From United States, joined Apr 2001, 909 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3501 times:
Bombardier products usually have this information in the AMM CH 24 systems description. These pictures usually have a note on them that says something like 'All breakers illustrated are not necessarily installed on all aircraft' and then refers you elsewhere for the correct breaker location.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27758 posts, RR: 61 Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3476 times:
Quoting Mender (Reply 7): I think this is because every aircraft is made to the specification of the airline that orders it from the production line. This together with improvements to the aircraft design throughout manufacture will mean that there are subtle differences in the layout of the C/B panels on just about every aircraft made.
Quoting T prop (Reply 8): breakers illustrated are not necessarily installed on all aircraft' and then refers you elsewhere for the correct breaker location.
Exactly.Boeing could have provided a random few & stated that its not the true layout for all aircraft.Atleast there would be a reference.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 5639 posts, RR: 56 Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3386 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
The Training manuals,WDM,SSM do not have a pictoral view of the P11.
I'm personally very surprised that Boeing did not consider this sketch.
It's a lot of work to make a new sketch for every aircraft and of pretty limited value. If you need to find a particular CB, there are better ways to do it than a whole-panel illustration.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9): Boeing could have provided a random few & stated that its not the true layout for all aircraft.Atleast there would be a reference.
If it's not accurate, it's not a reference. Manuals are part of the instructions for continued airworthiness...you need to be *very* careful about including "representative but not accurate" data.
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 5639 posts, RR: 56 Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3329 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
. If you need to find a particular CB, there are better ways to do it than a whole-panel illustration.
I'm currently creating my own list of the P11 & P6 for the B752SF & B752PCF.
I'm not saying there's no value in such an illustration. Just that if I know which CB I'm after (which I usually do, from the WDM), it's easier to lookup that CB number and get a position from a table than have to scan a full panel illustration trying to find the number.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27758 posts, RR: 61 Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12): I'm not saying there's no value in such an illustration. Just that if I know which CB I'm after (which I usually do, from the WDM), it's easier to lookup that CB number and get a position from a table than have to scan a full panel illustration trying to find the number.
True.Also to add on the B752,the Alpha-numero layout helps identify the CB,thru the FIM quite eaisly.
My effort is to get a pictoral view.
regds
MEL
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 4159 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3101 times:
Quoting Bio15 (Reply 14): For the Dash-8 there's a pictorial view of the CB panels on the ODM (Operating Data Manual). It actually shows every separate panel found in the cockpit.
LOL, that has to be the only reference to the dash 8 being a DeHavilland design I've ever seen I know it was, but Bombardier seems hell-bent on claiming it as one of their own.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
Bio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 15): LOL, that has to be the only reference to the dash 8 being a DeHavilland design I've ever seen I know it was, but Bombardier seems hell-bent on claiming it as one of their own.
You're absolutely right! This ODM copy I scanned is pretty old, year 1995.
Abnormal From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1654 times:
I've put together quite a few CB and CB reset guides. We keep a copy in each flight deck but with constant upgrades, mods, SBs, model variations as well as differences between production build sequences, it's da** difficult to keep up to date and accurate.
It varies between manufacturer's but in general I find the AMM or WDM to be the best source of info. There's usually a full CB list in one of those (look hard). And there usually will be general panel schematics somewhere as well (look hard). Copy the CB list into an excel ss and sort by panel.
I guarantee it won't be 100% accurate but it will be near 85%. Logistically, in practical terms, it's impossible to get 100%.
I remember doing our first 767 CB guide update. It was 5-7 yrs out of date. In the end I had somebody go out and take a digital pic of each and every panel on each fin. Sounds ridiculous but in the end I saved a huge amount of effort and time and was about as accurate as could possibly be expected.
If I had any quality control control advice - Take all of the CB reset procedures listed in the QRH, AOM, TSM and MEL and ensure they all match.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27758 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1586 times:
Quoting Abnormal (Reply 20): And there usually will be general panel schematics somewhere as well (look hard
Could not find the Pictoral view in all related docs.but yes a list is available.I feel clicking a photo & making a list will be easier.Considering the differences in fleet.
regds
MEL
Abnormal From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
Our CB list and reset guide is really a flt ops doc we keep in the cockpit for pilots but what happenned was that Maintenance was sooooo on board with having an accurate guide in the flt deck they jumped at the chance to help get it up to date. Guys used their own personal digi cameras and did about 40 planes in 2 wks.
Re the pictorials - what fleet were you looking at? I'll see if I have anything of use for you.
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 182 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1247 times:
Mel, I'm surprised you are are not using lists or databases to locate C/B's as related breakers can be found in so many different locations. For example various APU circuit breakers are located on panels P11 P6, P32, P34, E6. You'd probably miss some of these by merely looking at an image of the panel.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27758 posts, RR: 61 Reply 25, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
Quoting Mender (Reply 24):
Mel, I'm surprised you are are not using lists or databases to locate C/B's as related breakers can be found in so many different locations. For example various APU circuit breakers are located on panels P11 P6, P32, P34, E6. You'd probably miss some of these by merely looking at an image of the panel.
The actual attempt is to find an official document listing the CBs pictorially,which has not been sucessfull till date.
regds
MEL
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I know it was, but Bombardier seems hell-bent on claiming it as one of their own.
This ODM copy I scanned is pretty old, year 1995.
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