KLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1567 posts, RR: 30 Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5818 times:
So a friend invited me to his radio program tomorrow and gave me the task of finding out some of the most common aviation myths around.
The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
The third one would be: if a whole is opened at the middle of the flight, would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
I've done some research about them and some were even inspired after watching Mythbusters. Would love to know some of your thoughts about it. If you have another myth please suggest!
Mir From United States, joined Jan 2004, 13246 posts, RR: 65 Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5825 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
Because the door is designed to open inwards before opening outwards. The pressure differential between the cabin and the outside air at altitude prevents this inward motion - the door is sealed tighter the higher you go.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
It's possible, but I certainly wouldn't want to be a passenger in the back. That applies for both the 747 and the 172.
Knowing how to program an FMC based on a LevelD or PMDG product is one thing. Actually flying the airplane is something that Flight Simulator cannot teach you.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The third one would be: if a whole is opened at the middle of the flight, would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
If the airplane were to explode, it would be because said hole created stress on the airframe that lessened its ability to withstand the pressure inside. The fuselage would then explode, though not with any fire or anything - it would just burst like a balloon. The DeHaviland Comet had a problem of structural fatigue which led to several such accidents. It got withdrawn from service pretty damn quick after that, and much has been learned from it and from other accidents.
The hole has to be in the right place. If it's from a door coming open (if you could get the door open), the plane would just decompress and that would be that. Same thing for a window being blown out, provided it didn't take any significant structure with it. Basically, it is theoretically possible, but very very unlikely, so don't hold your breath for it to happen (which you wouldn't want to do during a decompression anyway, lest you yourself explode ).
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 13604 posts, RR: 68 Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5807 times:
Have fun on the radio. I would take a chance to highlight the following if you can make it entertaining:
- Airliners are build around the principle that there should not be a single point of failure.
- Accidents with a single cause are rare.
- Aviation is extremely safe. Much safer than driving.
- Aviation myths are interesting, but they are typically propagated by people who know little about commercial aviation.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
Assuming the aircraft is pressurized, it is not possible because the door sits in the hole like a plug and is pushed against the jamb by the pressure differential. Like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose. In theory, you can open it if you pull hard enough, as in thousands of kilos of force. I don't know if the handle would hold. The corollary is that doors can be opened at low altitudes if the aircraft is not pressurized.
Special case: doors not of the plug type. For example cargo doors and some cabin doors (IIRC the DC-9 has one). Some notable accidents were the Turk DC-10 and that 747 where the hinges had bent.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
Very very very VERY theoretically yes, but only if:
- You treat it as serious simulation.
- (You use add-ons like PDMG to make it more realistic).
- You follow procedures while "playing".
- The plane is fine and the weather is fine.
- You have balls of steel. It's one thing to do in theory or even in a full motion sim, it's another to know lives are on the line.
In practice, I think it is be unlikely that all those conditions will be met.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The third one would be: if a whole is opened at the middle of the flight, would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
You mean a "hole". In general the answer is no. The air would simply rush out of the hole. But we have to subdivide the scenario:
- Bullet hole: the air would rush out but if the outflow valves are closed the aircraft can maintain pressurization. Plane lands safely.
- Blown out window: the air would rush out but if the outflow valves are closed the aircraft can maintain pressurization. Plane lands safely but if you were right next to it when it blew out you might be in danger.
- Big hole several meters wide like the Aloha 737 or UA 747 (both of which landed safely but with casualties). Now it starts becoming more dicey but the danger isn't so much from pressurization issues as it is about structure. As long as the structure doesn't fail, the control surfaces are not damaged (JAL 747) and you don't lose more than one redundant signal and/or hydraulic path (Sioux City DC-10), you should be ok.
[Edited 2008-06-11 02:54:25]
Tact Is For People Who Aren't Witty Enough To Be Sarcastic
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States, joined Sep 2007, 2204 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5808 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
I'll second Mir. It sure would help if you had in-depth knowledge of the a/c systems from using PDMG/WILCO-PUB/Level-D/Phoenix Sim etc. but flying the thing is something totally different.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
Dragon6172 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5780 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
Clear weather, calm wind, daylight hours, long wide runway, straight in approach, maybe a pilot "coach" on the radio, and hell, lets add in a chase plane, then sure I think your odds of this being successful go up. Start taking these away, then the chances of success go down. Especially if its night, IFR conditions!
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8280 posts, RR: 41 Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5781 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 1): Knowing how to program an FMC based on a LevelD or PMDG product is one thing. Actually flying the airplane is something that Flight Simulator cannot teach you.
Agreed. With some PMDG experience, there might be a chance to coax a healthy 744 to an autoland with no additional problems to contend with. I certianly wouldn't fancy hand-flying a real 747 to a manual landing on my first time at the controls.
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 3501 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5744 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): So a friend invited me to his radio program tomorrow and gave me the task of finding out some of the most common aviation myths around.
The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
The third one would be: if a whole is opened at the middle of the flight, would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
I've done some research about them and some were even inspired after watching Mythbusters. Would love to know some of your thoughts about it. If you have another myth please suggest!
Thanks!
Alonso
1)As others have mentioned a door can't be opened in flight due to the pressure differential... or in the case of the 747 it can be cracked open (for venting purposes) but can't be opened due to the windflow over the forward opening door.
2) Flight sim on a computer if enough time was spent on it then yes possible but sure would be interesting...
Flight sim trainer (ie ZFT sim) is effectively the same as flying an aircraft so if they could learn how to fly that then no problem at all...might not be the smoothest of landings however.
3) depends on the size of the hole... but an explosion? generally not in most circumstances... the plane would depressurise from anything bigger than a window right up to say 3m x 3m... after that the plane would likely break up and then possibly explode as the fuel tanks ruptured...thats a pretty extreme example however...
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27837 posts, RR: 61 Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5730 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
Depending if the Aircraft is a pressurised type or not
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
Landing on the runway is the concern.
on the 3rd query.....Depends on the location of the damage.
Pilotboi From United States, joined Sep 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5661 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The first one is whether a door can be opened during flight. We all know it's impossible but what's the explanation behind it.
As many others have said, it's because of the pressure difference. I think this answer is best described with an example.
Let's say we're cruising at 30,000 feet. So standard pressure outside the cabin at this altitude is about 4.3 PSI. Now the cabin is pressurized so that it's similar to being at 8,000 feet, which is about 8.5 PSI. So the difference in pressure between the inside and outside of the aircraft is 8.5 - 4.3 = 4.2 PSI.
Now, let's take a standard aircraft door, roughly 6' x 3', or 72" x 36", or 2592 square inches. Multiply that by the force of pressure per inch, 4.2 PSI, and you get 10,866 lbs. So you have to be pretty damn strong to pull an aircraft door towards you in flight.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9996 posts, RR: 79 Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5609 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
Absolutely not. Never under any circumstances. Even the comet did not explode.
Reason is definitions: explosion is what happens when the burst occurs at a speed greater than the local speed of sound. An open can of gasoline does not explode. It burns very rapidly. Chemical compounds can burn at rates exceeding the speed of sound (in air) but an uncontained pneumatic overpressure will propagate at speeds approaching but not exceeding the speed of sound.
They may rend the fuselage asunder, with further damage being done by dynamic airload but they will not "explode" without the acceleration of explosives.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2): doors not of the plug type. For example cargo doors and some cabin doors (IIRC the DC-9 has one).
The DC-9 cargo doors were of plug type. They were hinged at the top and opened inward, remaining entirely within the pressure vessel. The only non-plug door on the DC-9 was the forward airstair door below the 1L door. It latched to lugs on the ladder and, reportedly the entry/galley floor was designed to collapse, trapping the stair to prevent extension in the event of the door blowing open. I cannot personally confirm this last part.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2103 posts, RR: 30 Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5585 times:
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
I had a few goes on full motion sims before I had any real life licenses or real training. Made a decent job of it. Airliners are built to be easy to fly. I think a degree in aeronautical engineering could be considered cheating, though. I'd say a flight simmer who has put in good study time and has bothered to figure out how to fly a similar plane by the book on instruments will probably be able to get the aircraft to the airport and produce a crash which definitely leaves good hope for survival. Providing there aren't any failures to cope with etc, of course, StarLionBlue made a good list of ifs in reply #2.
A casual flight simmer, who just burns around the virtual sky having fun? Ahm, nope.
How about adding inability to take off from a conveyor belt and pendulum effect? Was it a three week show?
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9996 posts, RR: 79 Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5575 times:
Quoting Chksix (Reply 11): Mythbusters on Discovery did all those myths.
Perhaps they did, but they really, really SUCK at any experiment that isn't extremely straightforward. Their logic is often flawed and their science really poor. They clearly conduct their experiments for entertainment and not for actual establishment of fact. Case in point, the grossly uninformed "expert" pilot they recruited for the plane on a conveyor belt experiment.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
KELPkid From United States, joined Nov 2005, 4240 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5489 times:
Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 8): Now, let's take a standard aircraft door, roughly 6' x 3', or 72" x 36", or 2592 square inches. Multiply that by the force of pressure per inch, 4.2 PSI, and you get 10,866 lbs. So you have to be pretty damn strong to pull an aircraft door towards you in flight.
You'd probably break the door handle/latch mechanism before the door budged
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
KLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1567 posts, RR: 30 Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5487 times:
Guys, thanks for all your replies! They have all been really helpful as they complement one another really well.
So basically opening a door in flight is impossible.
A Flight Simulator geek just MIGHT be able to fly an airplane in case of an emergency. This depends of course on many scenarios which would be:
1. having a pilot over the radio giving you all the explanations
2. someone who had the time to read the real panel from the aircraft in question (in case there's no expert pilot at the radio)
3. In case there's no radio then it would be almost impossible to figure out.
But all in all theoretically impossible
Quoting Chksix (Reply 11): Mythbusters on Discovery did all those myths.
Yes they did but I wanted the a.net point of view.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2): Have fun on the radio. I would take a chance to highlight the following if you can make it entertaining:
- Airliners are build around the principle that there should not be a single point of failure.
- Accidents with a single cause are rare.
- Aviation is extremely safe. Much safer than driving.
- Aviation myths are interesting, but they are typically propagated by people who know little about commercial aviation.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 10414 posts, RR: 67 Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5416 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9): Reason is definitions: explosion is what happens when the burst occurs at a speed greater than the local speed of sound. An open can of gasoline does not explode. It burns very rapidly. Chemical compounds can burn at rates exceeding the speed of sound (in air) but an uncontained pneumatic overpressure will propagate at speeds approaching but not exceeding the speed of sound.
Sorry to correct you, but "explosion" is the master term. It is dividend into "detonation", which is a chemical reaction producing gases, which propogate at a speed higher than sound (this also applies to the rather narrow reaction zone intthe explosive, actually just inside a supersonic shock wave, energy transfer between molecules happens through mechanical impact and not through heat). A typical example would be a dynamite. It doesn't need a tamping. The gases are released at such a speed, that the surrounding air can (through it's own inertia and incompressibility) cannot give way.
"Deflagration" is the other term, if the gases escape at less than speed of sound, the reaction zone is much wider and energy transfer between molecules happens through heat. In this casea typical example would be black powder. They need a good tamping to keep the gases together until a high pressure is reached, then the containment will give way at the weakest point.
During my blasting training, our instructor demonstrated the differences:
First he placed a pound of black powder on a brick and fired it. All that happened was a loud whoosh, a flame and a mushroom cloud of white smoke.
Then he placed some black powder into an empty food tin and placed a sencod, slightly bigger tin over it. There was a soft pop and the bigger tin flew into the air.
Finally he took a stick of a commercial ammonia nitrate dynamite, primed it, and placed it on top of the brick, without any tamping. There was a sharp, loud bang and the brick disintegrated into pebbles.
An explosion can also be caused by purely mechanical means as a sudden release of stored energy, e.g. in a bursting steam boiler.
SlamClick From United States, joined Nov 2003, 9996 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5389 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17): An explosion can also be caused by purely mechanical means as a sudden release of stored energy, e.g. in a bursting steam boiler.
I've seen an old wooden barrel full of ox plates (shoes) pressed apart under the load. Yielding to the weight of the loose mass inside the staves had slipped the highest hoop and the upper hoops were slowly being pressed upwards as the barrel fell apart. I'd guess that this process probably took something like a hundred years to play out. Was this an explosion of this type?
How about my torso? Settling toward the bottom, it is. Explosion?
Okay, I'll accept your definitions. I'll argue with a journalist on this, but not an engineer.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
AlexEU From Malaysia, joined Oct 2007, 1622 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5385 times:
I've seen that A340 doors have a small window (if we can call it a window), under which is written that it must be opened before the door opens. Does this mean that we could open that small window in mid-air ?
''For what does it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?'' Mk 8:36
Vikkyvik From United States, joined Jul 2003, 3833 posts, RR: 26 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5381 times:
Not exactly a pure aviation myth per se, but plenty of people toss around the old "1 in every 5 miles on an (American) interstate highway has to be straight, in order to be used as a landing strip in an emergency".
I can show you plenty of interstates where that's not the case.
Not to mention, that only applies to the US.
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
Moo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5354 times:
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 21): Not exactly a pure aviation myth per se, but plenty of people toss around the old "1 in every 5 miles on an (American) interstate highway has to be straight, in order to be used as a landing strip in an emergency".
I think that myth originated from the fact that the Interstate system was originally funded because it gave the military better ways to move large number of troops around the country in emergency situations.
However, there *are* countries, such as Sweden, which do mandate road building with this in mind, and semi-regularly disperse their aircraft around the country to test wartime conditions.
Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter): The second one is about Flight Simulator. Is it real that someone like an FS geek ( like me) would be capable of landing a real plane?
I know commercial pilots (747, A330) that have tried FS and said they couldn't land the aircraft they operate every week - theoretically a geek with thousands of hours behind him would have a leg up, but I wouldn't want to be on that aircraft.
Mir From United States, joined Jan 2004, 13246 posts, RR: 65 Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5285 times:
Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 16): Maybe interesting to mention that a twin engined plane can handle an engine failure in any phase of the take-off?
Careful, this isn't always true. For a commercial airliner, yes. But if the realm of little twin-engined trainer aircraft, performance really sucks with an engine failed, and you may not be able to climb at all depending on conditions.
As the saying goes, "the remaining engine is just enough to get you to the scene of the crash."
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 13604 posts, RR: 68 Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5274 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12): Case in point, the grossly uninformed "expert" pilot they recruited for the plane on a conveyor belt experiment.
At least he was proven wrong. But I will agree that Mythbusters have issues when it comes to complex subject matter.
Quoting KLM685 (Reply 14):
A Flight Simulator geek just MIGHT be able to fly an airplane in case of an emergency. This depends of course on many scenarios which would be:
1. having a pilot over the radio giving you all the explanations
2. someone who had the time to read the real panel from the aircraft in question (in case there's no expert pilot at the radio)
3. In case there's no radio then it would be almost impossible to figure out.
But all in all theoretically impossible
No. It is theoretically possible, but in practice extremely unlikely.
Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 16): Maybe interesting to mention that a twin engined plane can handle an engine failure in any phase of the take-off?
Indeed. I have heard lots of people get scared of "what if an engine breaks". I try to explain that there's a perfectly good one on the other side of the aircraft and it has more than enough power to get us where we need to go. This also ties into the "no single point of failure" thing.
Tact Is For People Who Aren't Witty Enough To Be Sarcastic
WN700Driver From United States, joined Aug 2001, 890 posts, RR: 8 Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5230 times:
The third one would be: if a whole is opened at the middle of the flight, would the difference in pressurization make the airplane explode?
I'll bite, as we just R&R'd some components related to this a few days back. Cabin pressurization is not a static event. One does not fill a cabin up with air and then take off. The Cabin is actually constantly being pressurized throughout the flight. In fact, on no system that I've ever worked with, is there any way to control this. Once the cabin is receiving air from the engines, the only way to modify or set the "altitude" one desires pressurization to relates to the outflow valve.
On most systems, this is a check (one way) valve, that may or may not be attached to a pressure regulator. On most a/c , you can actually see the outflow ports along the bottom of the fuselage. So, in a case of sudden decompression, an automated system would likely seal the outflow valve, as well as draw more bleed air in from the other available engines. For something like a bullet hole on up to something like a window blowing out, it is extremely improbable that the cabin depressurize more than a few percent before the system catches up (although venturi issues obviously present a degree of difficulty proportional to the size of the hole.)
For something like a door, or chunk of wall blowing out (Hawaii seems to have bad luck with those things. . .) you have much bigger problems than pressurization to worry about. Overhead Oxygen (supplied by impact resistant candles) will give you all the air you need, for longer than you'll probably need it. In that case, I'd worry first about any hydraulic lines or electric cables being severed/crimped, etc. . . If there were anything more than that to deal with, whatever caused the hole in the first place has probably already reaqquainted me with the dead relatives.
Four billion years ago, the Earth was a ball of molten rock. Now, you can get the internet there.
26 MD11Engineer: Slam, IIRC, an explosion is defined as gases suddenly escaping, so I think your example with the barrel doesn't fit the definition. The other definit
27 Sfomb67: Several years ago I seem to remember an Airbus, maybe a 319 or 320, that during taxi-in after landing in Florida, a flt attendant cracked the door op
28 Starlionblue: Still can't open them in flight. They are plug type. I'm guessing that the pressure differential in this case wasn't so great, the aircraft being at
29 Chksix: Slam, I agree about MB but they are fun to watch and Kari is sweet An old and probably too generalising definition of the terms around explosions I le
30 Dragon6172: Typically when weight is on wheels the safety/overflow valve opens equaling the pressure. I have not read about the incident you mentioned, but I am
31 CosmicCruiser: I don't think that's true at all Actually from all that i've read that applied originally to Route 66 after WWII. Others as well...at least in the da
32 Zeke: That was an AA A300 which diverted into MIA on Nov 20, 2000. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X22314&key=1
33 Aogdesk: That's a great photo!! lol Sven, please be careful crossing the street..Bjorn almost got hit by a MiG yesterday.....
34 Starlionblue: I beg thee. My native Sweden has indigenous fighters. Sweden may have bought a cartload of old Russian APCs (which they are now selling off after som
35 SlamClick: Well then. I guess we need to define 'suddenly' before we can resolve this. I mean just because it took longer than one fleeting human lifetime, don'
36 BAe146QT: That really is a key distinction. An ex-military friend of mine (he served in the 60s as a demolition expert) told me that the difference isn't just
37 OPNLguy: Back to the centerline of the original topic, some other myths... 1. Airliners routinely run around with fully-fueled tanks... FALSE 2. Airliners inte
38 Aogdesk: I considered appropriately labeling the aircraft, but MiG sounded so much better than "Sven, please be careful crossing the street..Bjorn almost got
39 SlamClick: Deadheaded into SFO early one morning and vapor was streaming off the outboard ends of the flaps. A kid in front of me asked his dad what it was and
40 Vikkyvik: That is pretty much what I have heard also. It definitely was funded with an eye toward wartime conditions, and troop mobility. It's not. Hence a myt
41 Jetlagged: They don't call it "explosive decompression" for nothing. Compressed air does act in an explosive way. Pressurised water does not. That's one reason w
42 BAe146QT: These are what Terry Pratchett calls "lies to children". The reasons are different, but the motivation is always the same - to provide reassurance. I
43 Jetlagged: Absolutely. I was totally unprepared for the complete loss of forward vision in a piston single in flare. My instructor, who clearly felt I had been
44 Starlionblue: Hehe. MiG does sound cooler. Now this is truly OT but I don't believe "lies to children" are really a good idea unless the child is very young. When
45 Mir: Fact: The last flight you were on might have had an emergency and you never knew about it, because it wasn't a big deal. -Mir
46 OPNLguy: You don't have to convince me--I've been dispatching for nearly 30 years...
47 Moose135: Not only that, but in the "standard" scenario - pilots incapacitated, Flight Simmer comes to the rescue - I think you would be more apt to wet yourse
48 Aogdesk: Parents doing their best to "explain" to their kids is one thing. Guys trying to "explain" to their girlfriends/wives is a different animal, they're
50 Zkpilot: Most airbus doors have a small window in them... it is to allow the cabin crew to look outside the aircraft in the event of an emergency to see if th
52 HangarRat: Never mind the fact that "Sven almost got hit by a Saab" sounds positively pedestrian. (Bonus points for the pun.)
53 Mir: So THAT'S why older sheepskin seat covers are slightly yellow-ish. -Mir
54 ZuluLima: I think the primary reason for the window is to view the 'escape-slide engaged' marker from the outside so the door isn't opened while the slide is a
55 HAWK21M: Also to ensure the area is clear before opening the door. regds MEL
56 ThrottleHold: On the ground, the pressure differnitial will be at or near zero, making it much easier to open the doors. On the Airbus, the doors are power-assiste
57 WESTERN737800: I was with a friend in the right seat of a Piper Seneca. On the takeoff roll I heard a thump, thump noise on the right side. He opened the door, pull
58 MD11Engineer: Airbus doors disarm the slide automatically if opened from outside. Jan
59 HAWK21M: The B757 also has power assist. regds MEL
60 OPNLguy: Gotcha.. Your myth #9 brings this to mind: A captain passes away and, unfortunately, makes a trip downstairs versus upstairs. As hee is getting off t
61 BAe146QT: While I agree with you in the general principle, an airliner in flight is not the place to consult the Encyclopeadia Britannica. Yes, we should encou
62 Starlionblue: Heh. One can always fudge the truth without lying about this one. "Mommy and daddy love each other very much and 9 months later..."
63 PPVRA: Don't know if it has been said above, but there's the myth that props can glide down if all engines are out but jets can't. They both can, and there a
64 JoseKMLB: I think most planes have an auto land if you can get someone on the radio to tell you how to put it on. But I think you could land a plane with help
65 Starlionblue: Try reading the thread again, and other threads. You'll find real pilots telling you good reasons why this scenario is unlikely to end well. Autoland
66 CosmicCruiser: Keep in mind that the cockpit setup my vary widely from airline to airline. Our 757s are being upgraded from the delivery ver. What would you do if y
68 AlexEU: Is it possible to activate evacuation slide while aircraft is on ramp? I was standing on the gate, near the B737 and I almost activated evacuation sli
70 Mir: I believe that you do have to pull an Airbus door in before you can push it out. -Mir
71 Starlionblue: As mentioned it happens all the time. However the slides do have to be armed. Yes you do have to pull it towards you. It's a plug type like all the o
72 JoseKMLB: Yes you are right I really dont know how the autoland works, but I do see in some flight plans for deltas md-88s that they want autolands done and ha
73 JoseKMLB: I might just crap myself then try what I know and after all is said and done just might end up in the ditch or something.
74 Starlionblue: Plenty of simulator facilities will happily part you from your money.
75 AlexEU: Why don't they have some security locks to prevent from opening it (or door for that matter)? I am sure that a strong person could open doors at 5000
76 MD-90: I would like to know why four lane highways and some interstates in Mississippi have single engine piston diagrams painted on them at the beginnings
77 Starlionblue: That depends on: - Pressure differential between inside and outside. - Airflow. In practice the pressure differential need only be very small to make
78 Max777geek: As many replied, I would add that the reason why it would be phisically impossible to open the airplane door while in flight at a cruising altitude i
79 SlamClick: It is not the altitude that affects this, but the differential pressure. Around 8.6 PSI is a common 'Delta-P' for airliners. So let's say the door is
80 Fr8mech: The signs mean your speed may be monitored from the air. You'll probably notice a white line painted near the start and finish of the straight away.
81 AlexEU: What about emergency exits, they are not large !?
82 Fr8mech: Emergency exits have no assist mechanism. Emergency exits must come inside the aircraft. It also goes to show you that even a small area presents an
83 ArniePie: Ok, fair enough. Now whe're talking hypothetical how about this, flying at let's say 15000ft, a gunshot (hijackers) goes off and shatters a window. T
84 Fr8Mech: A cabin window blowing out at 15000 feet should not cause a loss of pressurization. The pressurization system should be able to keep up with a window
85 Starlionblue: Except that airliners are not homogeneous, and vary even within individual airline fleets. Hopefully you would understand enough, but as someone ment
86 Wn700driver: Lol, if you lose a door in flight, your problems are much bigger than pressurization. Just about anything strong enough to take off a door probably to
87 JoseKMLB: Put me in a MD-88 sim. and I'll do my best to land it safely. Thats only because I know that cockpit very well. Just wish I could do the sim or real
88 Starlionblue: Contact a sim facility and get your parents/kids/significant other to make you a nice birthday gift. Lots of them offer "trial flights". Maybe not th
89 Mir: They have to be done every thirty days for certification purposes, even if the weather doesn't require it. -Mir
90 TUNisia: Firsthand account (with picture inside cabin) of TWA flight 840 which had a bomb go off in flight on a flight from Rome to Athens in 1986. http://www
91 JoseKMLB: Really and how much do they go for? I would be there all the time if I could.
92 Starlionblue: It's typically pretty costly. Do some Googling. Here are two in the UK: http://flyawaysimulation.com/article1031.html and http://www.paramountzone.com
93 AlexEU: If a door (or a large whole) gets cracked or opened in mid-air, and I didn't fasten my seat belt, would the force throw me out of the plane? It depend
94 Starlionblue: If you were sitting next to the breach when it happened and without your seatbelt, maybe. Assuming the door opened swiftly. If it's just a crack you
95 SlamClick: Actually, assuming an almost instantaneous transition from maybe an 8000' cabin to 37000' actual pressure altitude, it would probably produce hundred
96 BAe146QT: I should think that silicone implants (of the male or female variety) might have a hard time of it too. Literally. Apropos of that (and perfectly in
97 AlexEU: Nah, mythbusters tested it That's what I was thinking about. I ussually keep my seatbelt fastened, on long flights (when I am sleeping)... What type
100 ReidYYZ: I'm going to go on a limb and say my long considered theory. Opening a door on a pressurized, turbine commercial aircraft is possible. Bear with me as
101 Starlionblue: Thanks for info. I stand corrected. Also thanks to AlexEU and TUNisia for the aircraft type corrections.
102 Viscount724: It was a BAC 111-500 in 1990. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...66958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.ph
103 HAWK21M: What altitude was the A310 cruising at,in this case? regds MEL.
104 Max777geek: I am an aviation enthusiast, had some solo lessons in a small Cessna 152 (complete flight at the commands was achieved) plenty of experience with fli
105 KELPkid: Here's one that non-aviation types still have trouble grasping: When I tell them I'm a (private) pilot, they take a good look at me, and notice I wear
106 AlexEU: Yep, I got that too, and heard that many times from others (although I am just studying aeronautics but prepering for PPL). It annoys me a lot.
107 Mir: I answer it with: "Yes, and when I have my glasses on I have perfect vision." -Mir
108 JoseKMLB: Oh I bet after I wrote this I was thinking well knowing the 88 is good but flying it is another story because I really don't know how it handles so I
109 SlamClick: Even my pilot friends have trouble believing this, but I know two airline transport pilots who each have one glass eye. One was already a captain whe
110 Max777geek: You might like to know what my impression is been the first time I had controls in the full motion simulator... md80. Moved the yoke a bit left. felt
111 Zkpilot: As do Boeings, however there have been occasions where a door that was armed has failed to disarm when opened from the outside... Ground crew have ev
112 BAe146QT: To me, this is one of the reasons why a home simulator - even the very best you can buy - just never really cuts it. The control forces (and dead are
113 JoseKMLB: I would love to have a sim that well. Maybe one day there will be such a thing
114 OPNLguy: Another good myth... There was a blurb earlier today that the folks at ABIA (Austin Bergstrom International Airport) in Austin had cancelled several f
115 Zkpilot: However between them they can close the airport/airspace in effect cancelling flights.
116 OPNLguy: That only delays them, it doesn't cancel them... Another myth is weather (a thunderstorm overhead, or fog with visibility readings below landing or t
117 474218: We had the same thing happen on the L-1011 production line. The pressure checks were accomplished on graveyard shift (less people around), we had ran
118 ReidYYZ: Unknown, but if the door had indeed opened, cruising at FL310 or FL410, it would have been over in .8 seconds or .7. Either way very fast. Understood
119 Copter808: Hey, I though I was the only one with that problem! I've always found the aircraft--both airplanes and helicopters--to be easier than the simulator!
120 SlamClick: I hear that from students all the time. Here's a question; on what aircraft did you ever fly the real airplane first, and not fly the simulator until
121 MD11Engineer: When I did my few flying lessons years ago (until I ran out of $$$), I also found flying the real plane easier than the PC flight simulator. The main
122 474218: I was on sim re-cert, as an observer. I found my self actually worried and sweating as the crew worked to isolate the problem given them and finding
123 SlamClick: If the sim is halfway realistic and the distractions can be kept to a minimum it is very easy to get caught up in the airplane-ness of it. I can reme
124 2H4: I've posted this before, but I used to use a Frasca sim quite a bit for training and flight team competition, and it felt as though I was flying a DC-
125 SlamClick: I'll go you one further. I once counseled a friend about to get instrument current again to use a little cheesy table-top sim and to invite a bunch o
126 2H4: Reminds me of one night about seven years ago. I was alone in the sim room at about 11pm, after everyone (I thought) had gone home for the day. I was
Sponsor Message: 
From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1567 posts, 
From United States, joined Jan 2004, 13246 posts, 
).
From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 13604 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8280 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 3501 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 27837 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Sep 2005, 345 posts, 
From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 10414 posts, 
From Malaysia, joined Oct 2007, 1622 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
